The EV fact thread

[markjay]

...thick black smoke...

I've seen one of those Diesel oil fires first hand and it's not something you forget.

 

[SmartAmg]

Most (though not all) ICE car fires start with fuel leaking on a hot surface (typically the exhaust). Some start with an electrical short circuit or water (coolant) leak on electrical components (I even had the 12V battery explode on me once, though it didn't start a fire, just badly messed-up the engine bay).

EV fires are usually caused by thermal runaway in a damaged or faulty cell (flammable coolant is no longer used).

Statistically, EVs are less likely to catch fire, but when they do, it can't be extinguished until the fire consumes itself.

Diesel oil burns horrifically, for hours, generating high temperatures, thick black smoke that (perhaps luckily) will kill you before the fire gets you.

Choose your death................

Mmmm, cheered me up no end.

 

[markjay]

Mmmm, cheered me up no end.

There's also the chance that a piece of space junk will crash on your car while driving - the Russians in particular are known to be very messy when it comes to brining down old Sputniks....

 

[SmartAmg]

There's also the chance that a piece of space junk will crash on your car while driving - the Russians in particular are known to be very messy when it comes to brining down old Sputniks....

Bet your a riot, on a night out.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

More EVidence that EV's must be catching fire and being scrapped early.

Drove back from Manchester yesterday, and stopped at Warwick Services for the usual comfort break.

Services, Starbucks and car parks were stuffed with herds of fat people struggling to get "snacks" for their holiday drive.

But the EV chargers? Hardly anyone using them, apart from Tesla which was half utilised on a busy August Friday. (And these 10 unused ones here were just one of the several banks of chargers spread over the site)

Clear EVidence that EV's must be being scrapped because their batteries have failed at 4 years old, or because the batteries must caught fire.

Ps - Just checked their status at 4pm on a sunny August afternoon. 13 out of 16 chargers unused.

 

[markjay]

Bet your a riot, on a night out.

What's a 'night out'?

In fact, what's 'out'...?

 

[190]

Clear EVidence that EV's must be being scrapped because their batteries have failed at 4 years old, or because the batteries must caught fire.

I draw a less humorous inference which is don't invest in companies that are installing these public EV chargers because they can't possibly be recouping their investment and making a profit. BP has already scaled back it's ambitions and cut staff in their EV charging business. Whatever the reason for the EV rollout stalling it can't be the availability of public EV charging. I don't see a short term improvement while net zero is being aggressively pursued by a certain idiot. It should be plain to anyone that what the UK needs is lower electricity prices and he is likely to put them up deliberately or otherwise.

 

[markjay]

...don't invest in companies that are installing these public EV chargers because they can't possibly be recouping their investment and making a profit....

It's risky, I agree. But if you believe that the government will implement the 2035 ban, then you could take the long term view that once all - or most - cars are EVs, providing charging will be big business, and getting in on the action at an early stage will be akin to buying Apple stock back in the eighties. But, again, it's a long term bet, and a risky one at that.

 

[clk320x]

Wow you have missed your way in life Mark, you should have been a writer for some of these latest Crappy dramas that are on the telly," thick black smoke will kill you before the fire gets you" got to have a good imagination for that drivel

Research highlights lower fire risk in electric cars compared to petrol and diesel vehicles

Recent research has shed light on the fire risks associated with electric vehicles (EVs), revealing that they are significantly lower compared to their petrol

internationalfireandsafetyjournal.com

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I draw a less humorous inference which is don't invest in companies that are installing these public EV chargers because they can't possibly be recouping their investment and making a profit. BP has already scaled back it's ambitions and cut staff in their EV charging business. Whatever the reason for the EV rollout stalling it can't be the availability of public EV charging. I don't see a short term improvement while net zero is being aggressively pursued by a certain idiot. It should be plain to anyone that what the UK needs is lower electricity prices and he is likely to put them up deliberately or otherwise.

You’re wrong about BP. You didn’t read the Daily Mail clickbait article properly. Click on the Clickbait and read it again.

BP originally planned to put less than a dozen people in the smaller countries people many countries across Europe, and then realised that a handful of people in a country is a waste of time against larger local competitors. Instead they are investing billions into four key countries to establish scale in each one. (A billion quid this decade in the UK alone)

These 18 “underused” chargers at Warwick South are installed by the Service Area because they want people to drop in and top up, even for just 15 minutes (an extra 100 miles) while buying a coffee. It’s not just the 19p a mile revenue (77p / KWh) , it’s the total profit / revenue from the fat munchers on their “Welcome Break” visit.

Applegreen Electric - Welcome Break

welcomebreak.co.uk

https://www.bp.com/en_gb/united-kingdom/home/news/press-releases/bp-invests-p1-billion-in-uk-ev-charging-infrastructure.html

Report says BP cuts 10% of EV charging business workforce

BP has cut more than a tenth of its workforce from its electric vehicle charging business, BP Pulse, and pulled out of several markets, it has been

www.energyvoice.com

 

[markjay]

Research highlights lower fire risk in electric cars compared to petrol and diesel vehicles

Recent research has shed light on the fire risks associated with electric vehicles (EVs), revealing that they are significantly lower compared to their petrol

internationalfireandsafetyjournal.com

View attachment 160133

The issue is that while a fire in an EV is less likely than in an ICE car, the consequences of an EV fire can be more severe due to the fire service (current) inability to extinguish it.

But ultimately it's all statistical, I.e. an ICE car fire can have dire consequences as well (as happened in Luton airport).

So EVs are less likely to catch fire, but more likely to cause severe damage when they do.

But the point is that statistics work in big numbers, and most people buy only one or two cars at time.....

 

[BTB 500]

But ultimately it's all statistical

I wonder if age is a factor in vehicle fires. The average age of EVs on the road will be much lower than for ICE.

ICE stats. probably also include a large number of commercial vehicles, which I suspect have a higher number of fires than cars (due to what they're carrying, and also on-board equipment like refrigeration units that are left running when parked up). AFAIK the published figures aren't filtered at all and would also include arson etc.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Do any of you remember when we relied on the radio for traffic jam advice ? One cause was often "Lorry fire on the Mxyz" You hardly ever hear that nowadays.

Trucks have come up in the world no doubt , driver no longer needs to power everything including his travel kettle from one 12v ciggy lighter socket !!

 

[markjay]

I wonder if age is a factor in vehicle fires. The average age of EVs on the road will be much lower than for ICE.

When it comes to maintenance issues, possibly, e.g. fuel leaks from failed hoses etc, however probably not so much when it comes to manufacturing defects e.g. the Zafira/Mini/MB fires etc, when the fire can occur on brand-new vehicles.

But this does raise an interesting question. Do EV fires become more likely with age? Certainly it wouldn't be due to maintenance issues, as is the case with ICE cars (no fuel hoses). But potentially, batteries may be more prone to catch fire as they get older? I don't know the answer.

 

[Dryce]

But this does raise an interesting question. Do EV fires become more likely with age? Certainly it wouldn't be due to maintenance issues, as is the case with ICE cars (no fuel hoses). But potentially, batteries may be more prone to catch fire as they get older? I don't know the answer.

With electrical stuff you tend to worry about wear and tear on insulation and joints or the batteries.

However.

There have been quite a few Tesla S around for quite a long time. They don't appear have a reputation for catching fire.

The other risk would be damage to battery packs perhaps - but then we have the complaints about high insurance and the costs of replacing battery packs after accidents. So that would imply that a high proportion of potentially damaged battery packs are being removed.

As the EV ecosystem evolves then we may find more incidents of poor maintenance or bodged repairs. At the moment a disproportionate number of the vehicles will be newer and presumably better cared for cars. As more filter down to lower tiers of the market and lower levels of spending on care and repair then things may change.

Against that we would find that MOT rules for EVs will be adapted to look for problems as risks become better identified through experience over the longer term.

 

[Bellow]

An EV on fire will be SFA compared to when a buffering bank (only there for EV recharging) goes up in a densely populated area.

 

[BTB 500]

Heard a strange sounding car at the weekend and turned round to see a VW e-Up (Yorkshire's most popular car?!) going past at about 5 mph. It was putting out a fake ICE engine noise ... not sure if this was standard or some kind of mod/hack? Other new-ish EVs I've seen make a noise (to alert pedestrians), but not an engine sound. It was definitely louder than an equivalent small ICE hatchback going at the same speed!

Sadly it wasn't a V8 or V12 soundtrack, which would have been quite amusing But it was 'different' enough for me to look round to see what it was.

 

[markjay]

Heard a strange sounding car at the weekend and turned round to see a VW e-Up (Yorkshire's most popular car?!) going past at about 5 mph. It was putting out a fake ICE engine noise ... not sure if this was standard or some kind of mod/hack? Other new-ish EVs I've seen make a noise (to alert pedestrians), but not an engine sound. It was definitely louder than an equivalent small ICE hatchback going at the same speed!

Sadly it wasn't a V8 or V12 soundtrack, which would have been quite amusing But it was 'different' enough for me to look round to see what it was.

Was it an e-UP or a Twin-UP (Hybrid)?

 

[BTB 500]

Was it an e-UP or a Twin-UP (Hybrid)?

It was definitely an e-Up.

 

[PXW]

It will be the pedestrian sound emitter. Doesn’t the Taycan emit an engine sound?