The EV fact thread

[clk320x]

Yep i can read all the component manufacturers names on my w201 diesel. Bosch, Lucas & ATE mostly. Dead easy.

Bosch manufacture a lot in China, I wouldn’t be surprised if Lucas and ATE are the same? Why is it an issue?

 

[clk320x]

Hatred?

Criticism is the term i would use. The global car industry being taken over by the Chinese is the reality. Apparently you would prefer that Westerners did not notice that drastic change until it is too late.

What about the global technology industry? Which ‘made in the west’ tech device are you posting this from? Where do you draw the line?

 

[ChipChop]

Bosch manufacture a lot in China, I wouldn’t be surprised if Lucas and ATE are the same? Why is it an issue?

ESG issues. Surprised a Tesla fan cannot spot the obvious sustainability issues.

 

[Will]

Even if the future wasn’t EV I suspect that an increasing number of components would be sourced from the far east/China regardless.

One regular poster on here likes to point out that some of MB’s finest SUVs are assembled in the US. I’ve never really met anyone else who cares though.

Loads of stuff is made in China and I suspect that this isn’t the main reason that people who are reluctant to change don’t wish to. Certainly not when the majority of their possessions are made there or with materials from there

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Hatred?

Criticism is the term i would use. The global car industry being taken over by the Chinese is the reality. Apparently you would prefer that Westerners did not notice that drastic change until it is too late.

The motor industry foresaw it way before blokes on the Interweb, I can assure you.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Those car manufacturers who adapt to the changing market will survive and prosper, but many won’t. The motor industry will change dramatically in the next few decades, not just in terms of the manufacturing power base, but in terms of the way we one/use personal transport.

People will mourn the passing of ICE cars but will buy what suits them. Whilst the majority of those would not buy a Chinese EV today, the majority will in years to come. The passage of time allows familiarity and depreciation and will eventually make EVs - and specifically Chinese brand EVs - the “easy choice”

Those same people - or those just like them - also mourned the passing of theatres (outside of London), cinemas, village pubs, Post Offices, butchers, greengrocers, etc but still chose not to support those businesses, favouring the lower cost and convenience of supermarkets.

The same will be true of EVs and Chinese brand EVs, people who “wouldn’t today” “will tomorrow”. The market will evolve, the laggards will get dragged along, the past will look rosier when the reality of that past becomes forgotten, and the market will evolve again.

 

[ChipChop]

Even if the future wasn’t EV I suspect that an increasing number of components would be sourced from the far east/China regardless.

One regular poster on here likes to point out that some of MB’s finest SUVs are assembled in the US. I’ve never really met anyone else who cares though.

Loads of stuff is made in China and I suspect that this isn’t the main reason that people who are reluctant to change don’t wish to. Certainly not when the majority of their possessions are made there or with materials from there

And what are the environmental issues of sourcing products from so far away?

The (old) people being reluctant to change theory appears to take the position that change is good without question when that is obviously not the case from an environmental perspective. Container ships, cargo planes etc all have significant environmental footprints. As does Chinese industry itself.

 

[Will]

And what are the environmental issues of sourcing products from so far away?

The (old) people being reluctant to change theory appears to take the position that change is good without question when that is obviously not the case from an environmental perspective. Container ships, cargo planes etc all have significant environmental footprints.

I’m not talking about the environmental issues, but in practical terms a lot of stuff is made in China nowadays and will continue to increasingly be that way for the foreseeable future. So it is almost irrelevant in terms of this EV discussion taking place - why is it an issue when it comes to EVs but not for almost everything else.

Where is your LIDL oil pump made?

What phone are you using?

 

[ChipChop]

I’m not talking about the environmental issues, but in practical terms a lot of stuff is made in China nowadays and will continue to increasingly be that way for the foreseeable future. So it is almost irrelevant in terms of this EV discussion taking place - why is it an issue when it comes to EVs but not for almost everything else.

Where is your LIDL oil pump made?

What phone are you using?

Appears Chinese industry and assorted globalists get a free pass to pollute for profit as much as they like then. How equitable. Meanwhile back in the UK Jo Bloggs gets castigated for driving a diesel car, pays a fortune to heat his home due to green levies and is expected to accept regressive policies that are not in the best interest of his country.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Meanwhile back in the UK Jo Bloggs gets castigated for driving a diesel car, pays a fortune to heat his home due to green levies

Castigated, who, when and by whom?

What proportion of your home heating bill are green levies?

 

[SgtSlow]

I think the fact is: others who speed are p***takers but when he does it it’s fine?

Yeah, that's about right.

I think often that lot of people on fast roads - A roads, dual carriageway and motorways who are UNDER the speed limit are being too dangerous. Not only for speed, but proximity to traffic, spatial awareness changing lanes etc.

I dont always ignore speed limits. I don't triple them when I do ignore them.

I choose to drive at a speed and attitude befitting the conditions.

On my (semi routine) drive from Dundee to the Midlands, there's several 50mph zones, which are unenforced. Some - not me I add - must be over double speed limit through here, and while that's probably not an issue if you're the only one, when you have some people doing 45 or less it's not only dangerous but frightening.

I don't care if others choose to drive quickly, but it gets wreckless when the speed is excessive.

You don't have to be over the posted speed limit to be wreckless, but equally, merely exceeding the speed limit doesn't make it automatically unacceptably dangerous.

If you truly believe any speed over the speed limit anywhere is dangerous / wreckless, I'd question your driving professionalism.

That's not to say you dont agree, or you drive below the speed limit to avoid points / fine, but specifically the fact that any speed over any signed speed limit anywhere is too dangerous.

If anyone truly believes that, legality aside, why not drive at 20mph everywhere, because safety for you and your vehicle occupants, other road users and pedestrians?

 

[ChipChop]

Castigated, who, when and by whom?

What proportion of your home heating bill are green levies?

Diesel has been demonised by everyone with an axe to grind ever since the dieselgate drama but you knew that already.

No idea on % but feel free to educate me and let us all know what outstanding value for money green premiums represent.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

This is the usual "Question asked and answered" type of discussion,, Where statements are assigned to EV owners which they don't make. EV's are not going to save the world from atmospheric pollution and climate change - no one is asserting that- what they are very good at is reducing atmospheric pollution by vehicles in areas of dense population-They have yet to be beaten in that particular scenario.

So COP26 and the pace of the EV transition being imposed on us wasn’t about CO2 reduction?

So EVs are only being introduced in urban areas?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

So COP26 and the pace of the EV transition being imposed on us wasn’t about CO2 reduction?

So EVs are only being introduced in urban areas?

The EU’s 2035 ban on the sale of ICE powered vehicles is justified solely on ithe EU’s objective of becoming carbon/ climate neutral by 2050:

To reach its climate neutrality goal by 2050, the EU is taking action to reduce emissions from cars as road transport accounts for one fifth of the EU’s CO2 emissions. The EU aims to cut emissions from cars 55% and from vans 50% by 2030, compared with 2021, in order to reach the goal of zero emissions from new cars and vans by 2035.

Source: EU ban on sale of new petrol and diesel cars from 2035 explained | News | European Parliament

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

The EU’s 2035 ban on the sale of ICE powered vehicles is justified solely on its objective of becoming carbon/ climate neutral by 2050:

To reach its climate neutrality goal by 2050, the EU is taking action to reduce emissions from cars as road transport accounts for one fifth of the EU’s CO2 emissions. The EU aims to cut emissions from cars 55% and from vans 50% by 2030, compared with 2021, in order to reach the goal of zero emissions from new cars and vans by 2035.

Source: EU ban on sale of new petrol and diesel cars from 2035 explained | News | European Parliament

The ban on the sale of new fossil fuel powered vehicles starts from 2035, BUT there are large fines on European manufacturers if they don’t reach immediate transition targets for EV sales and for reduced ICE sales

These targets are what killed the Fiesta and Focus. Small, lightweight clean Euro6 petrols can’t be sold new at a price which would cover the fine payable to the EU.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

The ban on the sale of new fossil fuel powered vehicles starts from 2035, BUT there are large fines on European manufacturers if they don’t reach immediate transition targets for EV sales and for reduced ICE sales

These targets are what killed the Fiesta and Focus. Small, lightweight clean Euro6 petrols can’t be sold new at a price which would cover the fine payable to the EU.

And here’s the UK’s version of that EU legislation. Pure EV by 2035, in order to achieve climate control goals - NOT urban pollution - with interim goals of 22% EV in 2024, and 80% EV sales by 2030, before 100% EV in 2035

The government has today (28 September 2023) set out the percentage of new zero emission cars manufacturers will be required to produce each year up to 2030, following the Prime Minister’s proportionate and pragmatic decision to delay the ban on new diesel and petrol cars from 2030 to 2035.

The path will support manufacturers and families in making the switch to electric, providing flexibility while also helping grow the economy.

The zero emission vehicle (ZEV) mandate unveiled today means the country will have the most ambitious regulatory framework for the switch to electric vehicles (EVs) in the world. This requires 80% of new cars and 70% of new vans sold in Great Britain to be zero emission by 2030, increasing to 100% by 2035. The 2035 end of sale date puts the UK in line with other major global economies, including France, Germany, Sweden and Canada.

The move provides certainty for manufacturers and will help families make the switch to electric by providing more time for the second-hand EV market to grow and charging to roll out more widely across the country. The plans provide investors with confidence to invest in charging infrastructure – with 43% more public chargepoints this year than last, putting the country well on track for the government’s target of 300,000 chargepoints by 2030.

The mandate sets minimum annual targets, starting with a requirement for 22% of new cars sold in 2024 to be zero emission, as originally proposed. This will rise each year up to 100% by 2035, although some manufacturers already plan to reach 100% sooner. The UK’s ambition has already triggered investments in gigafactories and EV manufacturing, with over £6 billion in private sector chargepoint funding also ready to be unleashed. Today the government is confirming the trajectory to 2030.

Source: Government sets out path to zero emission vehicles by 2035.

 

[clk320x]

No idea on % but feel free to educate me and let us all know what outstanding value for money green premiums represent.

So you have no idea, yet you said green levies are the cause of people struggling to heat their homes?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Diesel has been demonised by everyone with an axe to grind ever since the dieselgate drama but you knew that already.

Demonised? Really, I don’t see it.

Less preferred by the market, definitely.

“Dieselgate” accelerated the inevitable. Too many diesels were being used for use cases which make little or zero sense for a diesel, ie short duration, short distance, low speed, below operating temperature, etc. As a result they weren’t as a reliable or cost effective to run as those people hoped, especially with the additional kit required to clean up local emissions.

Diesel is still top of the tree for those people who really do tow a twin axle caravan to Morocco twice every week, etc. Not so much the vast majority of people who in reality do low-single digit thousand miles per year, driving to school, work. supermarkets, and the tip occasionally, counting MOTs and repairs as services.

The people who I know who are most negatively vocal about diesels are those who have had to meet the cost of several hefty repair bills. Without exception they shouldn’t have bought a diesel. That’s not “diesel’s” fault, nor are those people demonising diesels, they just don’t want to get bitten again. Their view is as valid as yours and mine.

No idea on % but feel free to educate me and let us all know what outstanding value for money green premiums represent.

Your comments in your post below made me think that (a) these green levies would be significant and (b) that you’d know how much they are, or else why would you make such a bold and negative statement?

Meanwhile back in the UK Jo Bloggs gets castigated for driving a diesel car, pays a fortune to heat his home due to green levies

 

[ChipChop]

So you have no idea, yet you said green levies are the cause of people struggling to heat their homes?

Yes i have no idea on the percentage figure because the UK governments incentive schemes for renewables (Renewable Obligation Certificates & more) is as plain as mud and in the words of Ofgem "a very costly way of supporting renewable electricity generation.".

 

[markjay]

Diesel has been demonised by everyone with an axe to grind ever since the dieselgate drama but you knew that already.

I think that what Dieselgate proved to many was that it is nigh-on impossible for manufactures to produce good, efficient, and clean Diesel cars, and that to some extent we drove them into cheating by placing these contracting demands on them.

And the AdBlue system is probably one of the worst 'band-aid' attempt ever attempted in the field of automotive engineering.