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The EV fact thread

Yes i have no idea on the percentage figure because the UK governments incentive schemes for renewables (Renewable Obligation Certificates & more) is as plain as mud and in the words of Ofgem "a very costly way of supporting renewable electricity generation.".

Whatever is wrong with the government's renewable energy policies, surely it can be all blamed on EVs?

I don't have the figures in front of me, but I imagine that even in 2035 and beyond, EVs will only consist a small part of the UK overall electricity consumption?
 
Demonised? Really, I don’t see it.

Less preferred by the market, definitely.

“Dieselgate” accelerated the inevitable. Too many diesels were being used for use cases which make little or zero sense for a diesel, ie short duration, short distance, low speed, below operating temperature, etc. As a result they weren’t as a reliable or cost effective to run as those people hoped, especially with the additional kit required to clean up local emissions.

Diesel is still top of the tree for those people who really do tow a twin axle caravan to Morocco twice every week, etc. Not so much the vast majority of people who in reality do low-single digit thousand miles per year, driving to school, work. supermarkets, and the tip occasionally, counting MOTs and repairs as services.

The people who I know who are most negatively vocal about diesels are those who have had to meet the cost of several hefty repair bills. Without exception they shouldn’t have bought a diesel. That’s not “diesel’s” fault, nor are those people demonising diesels, they just don’t want to get bitten again. Their view is as valid as yours and mine.


Your comments in your post below made me think that (a) these green levies would be significant and (b) that you’d know how much they are, or else why would you make such a bold and negative statement? :dk:
Dieselgate was not a scandal then in your opinion? The media seemed pretty sure it was.

As for the negatives re- diesel you seem to have neglected to mention successive Euro emissions standards and the negative consequences of those standards for engine and exhaust after-treatment system design. Apparently euro 7 diesel HGV engines are going to have to constantly monitor their own emissions outputs on the fly. A rolling laboratory although i doubt they will be rolling for that long until a warning light or limp mode is triggered.

 
Whatever is wrong with the government's renewable energy policies, surely it can be all blamed on EVs?

I don't have the figures in front of me, but I imagine that even in 2035 and beyond, EVs will only consist a small part of the UK overall electricity consumption?
I assume you meant to say can't be all blamed on EV's? Indeed policy is not concerned with who consumes the energy just that targets for renewables are met.

Dale Vince owner of ecotricity did very well out of ROC's apparently. He also funded Just Stop Oil campaigns.
 
Dieselgate was not a scandal then in your opinion? The media seemed pretty sure it was.
You don’t strike me as the kind of person who hangs on to every word from the media, but I’m often surprised. The media certainly tried their hardest to make it a scandal, and without media involvement the outcome could have been different.

Morally the car manufacturers chose to do the wrong thing. It wasn’t a decision to “cheat” though, they simply failed to be completely open with the buying public and the media. The whole industry including professional bodies knew.

They all did it, but not all carried the burden of consequence equally. Optimising cars for the test was happening since at least the early 1990s and even the US Gov would have been aware years before they “discovered” it. They simply chose to act.

It wasn’t a taboo practice, it’s existence was only a surprise to arm chair experts, the media and automotive CEOs (once their back was against the wall). The whole industry underestimated the implications of it coming to light through the media.
 
As for the negatives re- diesel you seem to have neglected to mention successive Euro emissions standards and the negative consequences of those standards for engine and exhaust after-treatment system design.
Really? Have another go. I’ve made some stuff bold to help it stand out on this pass.
As a result they weren’t as a reliable or cost effective to run as those people hoped, especially with the additional kit required to clean up local emissions.
 
I don't have the figures in front of me, but I imagine that even in 2035 and beyond, EVs will only consist a small part of the UK overall electricity consumption?
Tish, tish. You can do better than this.

Electricity consumption is already a quarter down on it 2005 peak and continues to drop every year. Tech reduces energy consumption

And in the background renewable energy production continues to rise and become more efficient.

Homes consume about 35% of UK electricity, the other two thirds is industry, commerce and services.

The energy companies have repeatedly said that EV consumption is easily absorbed into the total usage in the UK.

The only issue is getting power were it's used, rather than to where it used to be used.
 
I think that what Dieselgate proved to many was that it is nigh-on impossible for manufactures to produce good, efficient, and clean Diesel cars,
No, the failure is with the manufacturers who failed to recognise and invest in other ICE types that could deliver the required performance while creating low or non-existent NOx emissions. Instead they persisted with a technology that had no developmental headroom left. The warnings on this date back to the 1960s and were ignored and cheating (because that is what it was) was instigated instead.
and that to some extent we drove them into cheating by placing these contracting demands on them.
Is it the university's fault when a student cheats in an exam? Should the university have made the paper easier, less demanding - all the way to meaningless?
And the AdBlue system is probably one of the worst 'band-aid' attempt ever attempted in the field of automotive engineering.
ICE has plenty developmental headroom left untapped, technologies so low on NOx and particulate emissions as to require very little if any aftertreatment. There's more developmental headroom there than in EVs (unless the big breakthrough in battery tech finally occurs (WTF is it?). When it is pursued in conjunction with bio-fuels, electrifying cars will look plain stupid. The 'cleaner city air' argument will be buried also - zero particulates and NOx mean such an engine is perfectly acceptable in such an environment. And will cost a fraction of EV costs to manufacture (anywhere in the world - not just in China) with existing fuel distribution networks repurposed - not destroyed in favour of hideously expensive grid upgrades and new infrastructure.
And for those who find the above too much opinion, not enough fact, here's a fact:
''gasoline: 46.4MJ/kg, diesel: 44.8MJ/kg, lithium: 43MJ/kg, lithium-ion battery: 0.46-0.72MJ/kg.''
That's the energy density capability of liquid fuels and Li-Ion batteries. If the superiority of liquid combustible fuels isn't obvious from those figures alone, then there's little prospect of changing course before it is too late.
 
Is it the university's fault when a student cheats in an exam? Should the university have made the paper easier, less demanding - all the way to meaningless?
Yes in a way, insufficient invigilation.
 
And for those who find the above too much opinion, not enough fact, here's a fact:
''gasoline: 46.4MJ/kg, diesel: 44.8MJ/kg, lithium: 43MJ/kg, lithium-ion battery: 0.46-0.72MJ/kg.''
That's the energy density capability of liquid fuels and Li-Ion batteries. If the superiority of liquid combustible fuels isn't obvious from those figures alone, then there's little prospect of changing course before it is too late.
What has energy density got to do with anything?

The issue with gasoline and diesel is it needs to be combusted to unlock its energy.
 
AI's reliance of power hungry GPU's will redress that balance.

"Artificial Intelligence may soon require more electricity than all electric vehicles combined"


I know. The EV sceptics are idiots, aren't they?

Take the back of a fagpacket and do the numbers.

And that's before Moore's law cuts in and makes the AI processors yet more efficient.

(The first IBM mainframes I used to "power up" back in 1974 were so energy inefficient that they were water-cooled, for processors not much more powerful than my Apple Watch)
 
So COP26 and the pace of the EV transition being imposed on us wasn’t about CO2 reduction?

So EVs are only being introduced in urban areas?
Please do not bring COP26 into a fact based thread. If any of the COP meetings actually got results they would not have had to stage 26 of them.....
 
Please do not bring COP26 into a fact based thread. If any of the COP meetings actually got results they would not have had to stage 26 of them.....
Sorry, Pal, it's these UN initiatives that created the local legislation in the EU and UK that brought you your phased ICE ban.

The detail of these Climate change initiatives may go over your head - from Paris to COP26 , but they're what are driving the CO2 reduction across the planet. Across energy, agriculture, manufacturing, aerospace and even down into passenger transport.

Will it work? Who knows? But that's what's forcing global car manufacturers into dumping ICE, including small efficient petrols, and ending the Internal Combustion Engine for passenger use.

 
What has energy density got to do with anything?

It's pretty fundamental.

One of the shifts in battery technology has been an improvement in the energy density. One of the problems with weight of the vehicles is that to be sufficiently attractive in terms of range then the battery has to be large.

If the energy density of the batteries was improved (at a given price) then this could be a total gamechanger and would also mean smaller cars would be more viable instead of larger SUV style ones.
 

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