The EV fact thread

[190]

Have to agree, to me it's just an all expenses paid, jolly boys (and girls) outing.

And its a jolly on a colossal scale. COP28 attendance was 97,372 with an additional 3074 virtual attendees. The hypocrisy is breath taking. The UK alone sent 697 delegates. The numbers attending each year are rising exponentially from 20,000 to 97,372 in just 3 years.

Analysis: Which countries have sent the most delegates to COP28? - Carbon Brief

So it's easily within the grasp of COP to make a major impact on climate change. All they have to do is cancel COP.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

And its a jolly on a colossal scale. COP28 attendance was 97,372 with an additional 3074 virtual attendees. The hypocrisy is breath taking. The UK alone sent 697 delegates. The numbers attending each year are rising exponentially from 20,000 to 97,372 in just 3 years.

Analysis: Which countries have sent the most delegates to COP28? - Carbon Brief

So it's easily within the grasp of COP to make a major impact on climate change. All they have to do is cancel COP.

The world's a big place.

Delaying, maybe even stopping, Climate Change isn't like setting up a chip shop.

One person for every 100,000 in the UK, or on the planet? Doesn't sound like a lot, does it? (Including all the advisors, reporters, academics & sekkertries)

What number would you suggest?

 

[markjay]

Edit

 

[Petrol Pete]

Looks like things are taking a turn for the worst for EV sales in Germany....then possibly the rest of the EU .

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[ALFAitalia]

So the subsidy was stopped just 14 days earlier than planned....is that really news?

 

[Petrol Pete]

So the subsidy was stopped just 14 days earlier than planned....is that really news?

Yes. as these things are normally extended.

 

[clk320x]

So the subsidy was stopped just 14 days earlier than planned....is that really news?

Anything is news for the haters. Don’t you know the reason they didn’t buy an EV is because the subsidy was stopped 14 days early in Germany?

 

[SmartAmg]

Anything is news for the haters.

Took the words out of me mouth.

 

[m80]

The world's a big place.

Delaying, maybe even stopping, Climate Change isn't like setting up a chip shop.

One person for every 100,000 in the UK, or on the planet? Doesn't sound like a lot, does it? (Including all the advisors, reporters, academics & sekkertries)

What number would you suggest?

The plots of Yes Minister continue.

I reckon I know why these initiatives are called gravy trains,
it's cos gravy boats pour the gravy out instead of perpetually having money poured in only for sh*t to come out.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Looks like things are taking a turn for the worst for EV sales in Germany....then possibly the rest of the EU .

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Bad news for the car companies. The German subsidy has been removed "slightly" forward.

And they still have to pay those fines to the UK and EU in 2024.

(Fail to sell 22% of UK car sales as EV's in 2024 and they have pay the UK Government £15,000 for every car that they don't sell)

Pass them a tissue. (So what if they're still making a fortune out of exporting EV's to China)

ZEV mandate: DfT confirms EV sales targets for cars and vans

DfT confirms that the Zero Emissions Vehicle mandate, requiring more than a fifth of the cars sold by manufacturers to be electric, will come into force next year.

www.fleetnews.co.uk

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

The plots of Yes Minister continue.

I reckon I know why these initiatives are called gravy trains,
it's cos gravy boats pour the gravy out instead of perpetually having money poured in only for sh*t to come out.

You think Norway, the States, and the Arab nations aren't making gravy out of the Oil and Gas you buy?

Have you not been to the Middle East? Texas ?

Seen the Norwegian Pension fund? $1.5 trillion. $300k sitting in a State Pension pot for every Norwegian man woman and child. Non-contributory: all from Oil and Gas profits.

If Oil and Gas isn't a "gravy train," - for Johnny Foreigner -what is ?

 

[m80]

If Oil and Gas isn't a "gravy train," what is ?

'Aint that just capitalism in action?
Maybe less so for Russia, these days.

But I haven't seen attempt to seriously penalise the producers, just the end user consumers.
Akin to penalising the receiver's of stolen goods more then the thief's.
Aside from where the profits of the green initiatives lining some already wealthy pockets, in a Hobin Rood principle of mugging the masses to feed the elite.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

'Aint that just capitalism in action?
Maybe less so for Russia, these days.

But I haven't seen attempt to seriously penalise the producers, just the end user consumers.
Akin to penalising the receiver's of stolen goods more then the thief's.
Aside from where the profits of the green initiatives lining some already wealthy pockets, in a Hobin Rood principle of mugging the masses to feed the elite.

Why not start voting against "green initiatives?" Mr Starmer wants to hear your priorities for 2024.

Pollution, Climate Change, Sea Walls, Flood protection, agriculture, new public housing, efficient lighting, home insulation, sewage clean up, recycling, home working....

"Penalise the producers?" Bigger taxes on diesel ? That'll teach them. Bigger taxes on Domestic gas bills? Why not ?

Set out your case....

Rachel Reeves has got her notebook out, ready for suggestions.

 

[190]

Looks like things are taking a turn for the worst for EV sales in Germany....then possibly the rest of the EU .

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Germany is in financial difficulties so no surprise that generous EV purchase subsidies have had to go in the face of economic reality. Doing it 14 days early doesn't seem very smart but otherwise it's a non story, In the UK we have been there and done that already some time ago. I expect German EV sales will be similar to the UK experience where private sales fall off but company car sales will be more robust because like us EV's get generous treatment in terms of benefit in kind taxation. Companies will still buy them so It's not going to be the end of the word for EV sales, just a slow down. When they become more economically viable then private sales of EV's will pick up again. In an attempt to make an affordable EV for the masses, VW are working on an ID2 and perhaps even an ID1 to sell as low as 20,000 euros. They desperately need to succeed with that otherwise the EV mass market will be gifted to China sooner than need be.

I have no problem with this approach of EV's having to compete economically with IC's in order to survive. The policies of most countries so far have only produced a move to ever bigger and heavier cars which is the opposite of what net zero ambitions should have been.

 

[BTB 500]

So the subsidy was stopped just 14 days earlier than planned....is that really news?

According to Reuters the subsidy was due to continue to the end of 2024:

BERLIN, Dec 16 (Reuters) - Germany's electrical vehicle subsidy programme will end prematurely on Monday after paying out some 10 billion euros since 2016, the Economics Ministry said, the latest sign of belt-tightening following the adoption of a revised 2024 budget this week.

The new budget had to be slimmed down after a ruling by Germany's constitutional court that blew a 60 billion euro ($65.36 billion) in the country's state budget and forced the government to shelve some programmes designed to speed up Germany's green transition.

The e-car subsidy was originally intended to apply until the end of 2024.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/germany-end-e-vehicle-subsidy-programme-2023-12-16/

 

[molgrips]

@markjay why is AdBlue the worst bodge in the history of automotive engineering? Surely it's better than EGR?

 

[Smiley]

I have bad news to share. Most of the population does not give a **** what powers their car. And the % that do care gets lower the younger they are. It's just another device that needs to be rented / leased and a replacement chosen every x years. Is it reliable; how much does it cost per month and how much is the servicing? Some may be interested in how polluting it is. Cars are going the way that white goods have gone. Two generations ago people really cared about things they bought, they looked after them, they could mend them at home, they were probably writing letters to TV repair clubs talking about which valve they needed for their "made in England" TV and moaning about these new Japanese cheap TVs made with transistors that I won't be able to mend.......
Mankind has only been digging fossil fuels out of the ground in earnest for about the last 100 years or so and been pretty efficient (or greedy depending on your point of view) at it considering those deposits took billions of years to form; we've now arrived at another phase where more things will be powered by electricity rather than fossil fuels with a vain hope that it will "save the planet"
More bad news. It won't.
So just chill and drive what you want to drive; and let the other bloke / lady drive what they want to drive.

 

[Smiley]

@markjay why is AdBlue the worst bodge in the history of automotive engineering? Surely it's better than EGR

poorly designed, unreliable, sometimes difficult to fault diagnose and very expensive to maintain. with the added inconvenience that when it goes wrong it disables the car.
A better name for it would be PITA.
I'm sure markjay will add more details.

 

[markjay]

@markjay why is AdBlue the worst bodge in the history of automotive engineering? Surely it's better than EGR?

EGR tend to clog up with mileage, and when they do, it's an easy fix.

AdBlue can malfunction for no obvious reason at any time, can cost £££ to diagnose, and will almost certainly cost ££££ to repair.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Anything is news for the haters. Don’t you know the reason they didn’t buy an EV is because the subsidy was stopped 14 days early in Germany?

Anything is news for the haters. Don’t you know the reason they didn’t buy an EV is because the subsidy was stopped 14 days early in Germany?

If you think the news from Germany is funny then you are clearly not seeing the bigger political picture regarding EV's as part of the fanciful 'green' utopia that clueless politicians the world over are blindly pushing for.