The EV fact thread

[Noitz]

Whatever....

Half the country has below average intelligence. Leave them to it. They'll be proved wrong in time. There's no sense in debating with idiots.

If people think that there are huge queues at all EV chargers, when there visibly aren't, why bother with them?

I get the distinct impression you think anyone who drives an ICE vehicle and doesn't like EVs is an idiot with a low IQ? Charming, I must say.
With regard to queues at chargers I'm afraid you're very much mistaken. There have been plenty of queues on the M5, M1 and M6 service stations that I've seen on my travels, and chargers out of service too.

 

[NOMONEYBUTAMERC]

I get the distinct impression you think anyone who drives an ICE vehicle and doesn't like EVs is an idiot with a low IQ? Charming, I must say.
With regard to queues at chargers I'm afraid you're very much mistaken. There have been plenty of queues on the M5, M1 and M6 service stations that I've seen on my travels, and chargers out of service too.

Half the country does have below average intelligence, the other half has above average intelligence (broadly speaking and notwithstanding the amount that have exactly average) . But as to EVs , I don’t want one , have a declining requirement to own any motor vehicle, and being in my 72nd year won’t need to ponder how the inhabitants of terraced houses, blocks of flats, et all are going to charge their vehicles , replace the batteries, maintain them etc, before I checkout.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I get the distinct impression you think anyone who drives an ICE vehicle and doesn't like EVs is an idiot with a low IQ? Charming, I must say.
With regard to queues at chargers I'm afraid you're very much mistaken. There have been plenty of queues on the M5, M1 and M6 service stations that I've seen on my travels, and chargers out of service too.

Read my comments again. Especially the comment that: “If people think that there are huge queues at ALL EV chargers, when there visibly aren't, why bother with them?”

I’m pointing out that Tesla’s are primarily bought by company car schemes, and that most of the country that buys new privately is buying small hatchbacks.

Yes, there are queues at motorway service areas for fast food, toilets and even occasionally for chargers. My point was that if anyone fails to understand how insignificant that problem is, it’s a problem with their own intelligence. If a toilet is out of order, use another toilet. If there’s a queue in Starbucks, time your visit more carefully, or better still, don’t even use that busy Starbucks in the first place.

Half the country has below average intelligence, for sure. Why waste time with people saying you can’t drive to Europe because the Ports are busy on the busiest days of the School holidays, or because Macron’s workers are striking for better pensions again?

We know diesels are unreliable and uneconomic if wrongly used: short distance trips, Ad Blue, DPF, servicing, yada yada. If people aren’t prepared to understand what they’re driving, it’s their issue. It’s nothing for everyone else to be concerned about. So someone bought a diesel MINI to do short urban school runs and it keeps breaking down: who cares?

“Haters got to hate, hate, hate. Shake it off, shake it off”

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Half the country does have below average intelligence, the other half has above average intelligence (broadly speaking and notwithstanding the amount that have exactly average) . But as to EVs , I don’t want one , have a declining requirement to own any motor vehicle, and being in my 72nd year won’t need to ponder how the inhabitants of terraced houses, blocks of flats, et all are going to charge their vehicles , replace the batteries, maintain them etc, before I checkout.

Exactly. Nothing to worry about.

It’s simply not an issue for you. No nice EU regulator is asking you to convert.

Transport is in transition. You’ll see people pushed off the road by Sad IQ, but that’s a workaround which has disadvantages and advantages.

Like the end of smog, the end of the steam train, and the fixes we made stop to the depletion of the ozone layer, who cares if people can’t get their heads around what’s actually going on around them?

 

[Bellow]

“Haters got to hate, hate, hate. Shake it off, shake it off”

PMSL!!!

 

[Dryce]

Half the country does have below average intelligence, the other half has above average intelligence (broadly speaking and notwithstanding the amount that have exactly average) .

Half the country is below median intelligence. The other half is above median intelligence.

I think the survey statistic for driving is that most people respond that they think they are above average.

That could actually be a true reflection of ability if the measure of ability is such that there are a small number of very bad drivers and very few good drivers with most being just a little bit above average drivers.

I would observe that 'intelligence' is difficult to measure. And people can make decisions by selectively applying their intelligence. Status and culture drive the decision making process or a substantial part of the car market. This is why companies such as BMW and Mercedes have been able to flourish over the last two decades.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

PMSL!!!

That's is what happens at our age, if she "shake it off, shake it off" too much.....

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[MikeInWimbledon]

Good to see this week's news that the Tesla Y was a top ten UK selling car in 2023.

The only EV to be in the top ten, and selling an impressive 35,000 vehicles through the whole of 2023.

Which means that 35,000,000 car owners in the UK didn't buy a new Tesla hatchback in 2023. Which has to be good news.

Except for the commercial EV chargers around us which are still sitting there unused most of the time.

(But perhaps that's because every EV charger is broken?)

No wonder four out of five chargers at Gloucester Services (Southbound) is unused on a Saturday lunchtime. They're not selling enough EV's - yet.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Good to see this week's news that the Tesla Y was a top ten UK selling car in 2023.

The only EV to be in the top ten, and selling an impressive 35,000 vehicles through the whole of 2023.

Which means that 35,000,000 car owners in the UK didn't buy a new Tesla hatchback in 2023. Which has to be good news.

Except for the commercial EV chargers around us which are still sitting there unused most of the time.

(But perhaps that's because every EV charger is broken?)

No wonder four out of five chargers at Gloucester Services (Southbound) is unused on a Saturday lunchtime. They're not selling enough EV's - yet.



View attachment 151535

One of the things I find amusing is that the photos of queuing EVs are taken on the handful of days upon which motorway services are really, really busy.

The rhetoric is that the EV chargers are too busy and can’t cope, but in practice it’s the whole service station: the car park, toilets, WHSmiths, Starbucks, McDonalds, and even the “food counter” that’s always empty apart from that handful of busy days. The context somewhat dilutes the story though so is conveniently overlooked.

The reason that the petrol station will be busy on those days - but without huge queues is that it’s so very expensive that the vast majority of people avoid using motorway services for refuelling unless they have an all-expenses fuel card, are in a major hurry, or are about to run dry,

Most EV chargers are empty most of the time and therefore won’t ever scale up to comfortably accommodate (without queuing) on the handful of busiest days - just like the car park, toilets, WHSmiths, Starbucks, McDonalds, and even that “food counter” don’t scale up for it either. Again that context dilutes the story.

 

[Dryce]

The rhetoric is that the EV chargers are too busy and can’t cope, but in practice it’s the whole service station: the car park, toilets, WHSmiths, Starbucks, McDonalds, and even the “food counter” that’s always empty apart from that handful of busy days. The context somewhat dilutes the story though so is conveniently overlooked.

The issue isn't just chargers being busy - but the length of time required to occupy them in order to charge - and the limited range of EVs constraining the decision as to where/when to stop - less likely to be able to drive by to the next one.

The likes of Bank Holidays and the resulting spate of vehicles making long distance journeys on similar routes - with large proportion not being able to complete the journey without a significant recharge stop - well the result is obvious - and it's potentially way way beyond the issues we might see with ICE vehicles.

 

[Noitz]

I find it curious that nearly all public charging stations are not protected from the elements, unlike petrol stations. In the pouring rain or snow on a cold day/evening this surely adds the misery of EV ownership.

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[markjay]

I find it curious that nearly all public charging stations are not protected from the elements, unlike petrol stations. In the pouring rain or snow on a cold day/evening this surely adds the misery of EV ownership.

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I can't remember now - but on the occasion that we had fuel shortages, and there were long queues at petrol stations, did drivers go into 'queue rage' mode, or is this a trait reserved only for EV drivers?

In any event, the clip is spot on, the charging infrastructure must be improved.

The main impediment so far was slow return on investment, as the chargers were getting little use, but if drivers are now fighting over charging points then this is obviously not an excuse. No idea why energy companies do not invest in this area where there's clear demand.

 

[grober]

del

I find it curious that nearly all public charging stations are not protected from the elements, unlike petrol stations. In the pouring rain or snow on a cold day/evening this surely adds the misery of EV ownership.

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The presenter DAVID BULL drives a Tesla

David Bull: Theodora has stolen my heart. She’s a Tesla

David Bull, who was elected as an MEP for the Brexit Party last week, saves hundreds of pounds a year by driving a Tesla electric car — although he doubts he will be taking it to Brussels, because it is easier to get there by train. Before winning his seat, in the northwest of England, Bull was b

www.thetimes.co.uk

 

[zipdip]

Well I do not hate EV's the only people who can enjoy running a EV are those doing a very small mileage,I can well see the advantage of a EV in say a City,but with the removal of subsidies business people will revert to ICE, we are seeing major car makers stopping making Ev's Ford Toyota VW is just the start,and of course car makers have the crazy problem of getting large fines if they do not sell enough EV's,we have some very clever members on here,not sure why some have gone the EV route I suppose they are leasing the cars this might get more expensive maybe impossible very soon as the leading lease company for EV's has collapsed because of the very low residual value of a 3 year old EV,to me it is a puzzle,a company sends out its engineers or sales people in EV cars and pays them say 3 hrs to drink coffee while they charge a car twice in their working day,when I fill my diesel in around 3 mins,maybe they are able to load their quotes to account for the paid wasted time,I see the government are attacking the companies that erect and run the chargers,but most will have borrowed the money and they know the returns they are getting and the numbers do not add up, so no company is going to the wall supplying something that does not show a profit,another thing is nobody says why so many EV charging station break down,what packs in seems a mystery as I have not seen any mention of why they stop working,I suppose the last point I want to make is Cap HPI have stated that EV's values are declining four times faster than ICE cars,and you all know that Cap is the trades bible.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I find it curious that nearly all public charging stations are not protected from the elements, unlike petrol stations. In the pouring rain or snow on a cold day/evening this surely adds the misery of EV ownership.

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I find it curious that nearly all public car parks and private driveways are not protected from the elements.

That's where the majority of EV charging takes place, after all.

OK, no one stands by the side of the car, in snow, every week of the year, while the charging cable is attached to the car. But that's hardly an excuse, is it ?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

the last point I want to make is Cap HPI have stated that EV's values are declining four times faster than ICE cars,and you all know that Cap is the trades bible.

Fantastic news, thanks for sharing. Brilliant

I hate the flattened potato look of the Mercedes EQS and EQE, but if they're depreciating at four times the rate of ICE cars, then they'll be worth peanuts at 30k miles / four years old, so they'll be a bargainwhen they come off first owner / company car fleet use.

ICE cars broadly halve in value over four years, so this EV devaluation analysis is "mind-blowing"

To buy a four year EQS for £10 - 20 grand, and then fuel it at 4p / mile, with a range of 400 miles, makes the EQS too cheap to refuse. (Even though I will have to plug it into a socket on my driveway once a week, or outside some far away Cornish pub while I eat lunch.)

( I still loathe the design and build quality of most other EV's)


For sale: One owner, EQS SUV. Four years old. 30,000 miles. Full service history. (Range 400 miles) Was £125k new. Now for sale at £15k or near offer.

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[Deleted member 55947]

I can't remember now - but on the occasion that we had fuel shortages, and there were long queues at petrol stations, did drivers go into 'queue rage' mode, or is this a trait reserved only for EV drivers?

In any event, the clip is spot on, the charging infrastructure must be improved.

The main impediment so far was slow return on investment, as the chargers were getting little use, but if drivers are now fighting over charging points then this is obviously not an excuse. No idea why energy companies do not invest in this area where there's clear demand.

Do you think the current fuel providers (Shell, BP etc) will start providing the infrastructure so they can at least get a slice of the pie? If so I wonder if price wars will ensue

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Do you think the current fuel providers (Shell, BP etc) will start providing the infrastructure so they can at least get a slice of the pie? If so I wonder if price wars will ensue

So we've only got 53,000 EV charging points, for the 1,000,000 EV's in the UK as at November 2023.

That compares to 8,000 petrol pumps for 35,000,000 passenger cars.

The biggest providers are the electricity companies, of course.

Top 10 EV Charging Companies And Manufacturers In 2024 | Skills Training Group

Bought a new electric car and looking for the best charger? Check this article to find out the top 10 EV charging companies and manufacturers today!

www.skillstg.co.uk

BP's has 9,000 charging stations in the UK

https://www.bppulse.co.uk/going-electric/page/bp-pulse-opens-its-largest-most-powerful-EV-charging-hub-in-the-UK

Top 10 EV Charging Companies And Manufacturers In 2024 | Skills Training Group

Bought a new electric car and looking for the best charger? Check this article to find out the top 10 EV charging companies and manufacturers today!

www.skillstg.co.uk

Shell has 40,000 charging points globally, and is on target to have 70,000 installed by the middle of next year.

Electric Vehicle Charging | Shell Global

As one of the world’s largest energy suppliers, Shell has played a part in the essential journeys people make every day for well over a century.

www.shell.com

The Shell UK charging system currently has 20,000 charge points in the UK, including Shell recharge chargers at Shell forecourts, Waitrose and Aldi as well as 8,000 Ubicity kerbside chargers.

Glance at any Energy company's annual report / AGM and you'll see that they're all deep into expansion into EV energy delivery. They've been working on it for a decade, alongside the whole convenience store / cafe services business which is now a major part of their profits.

 

[markjay]

Do you think the current fuel providers (Shell, BP etc) will start providing the infrastructure so they can at least get a slice of the pie? If so I wonder if price wars will ensue

I know Shell does, not sure about the others.

Price wars between motorway services is probably unlikely, typically you have only one operator on a given stretch of road, meaning that motorists are a captive audience. The shops, however, might benefit from the increase in footfall as more people take a break.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Forgot to add that Bernard Looney, the CEO of BP was very proud that two thirds of the profit from a BP forecourt comes from its retail / cafe operation, with only one third coming from fuel. His "contentious" board team was recruited from retail and property development backgrounds, rather than from petrol distribution. (For more details see the Nicholai Tangen interview with Looney from March 2022)