The EV fact thread

[markjay]

One example for you: My SIL lives in Liskeard which is 287 miles door to door and the wife and I rack up the miles at an alarming rate throughout the year because SIL doesn't drive so it's always us that goes to visit. This distance is not an issue as I can get there and back and still have fuel in the tank. Also, we usually only stop once for a quick toilet break and driver swap at Gloucester Services and it's back on the road.

Assuming that there are no public chargers available near SIL's house, and that charging at SIL's house using a granny cable is not an option either, then you're looking at a half hour top-up break on the way back home. I can see why an ICE car is the more convenient option here, however I am not convinced that in itself this is a solid case against having an EV.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Also, I've never got piss wet through filling up my car in the rain .

I find that plugging in an EV in the rain gets me about as wet as getting something out of the boot, or getting in/out of the car.

What do you do at the start and end of your journey when it’s raining, or do you only park indoors or undercover?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

One example for you: My SIL lives in Liskeard which is 287 miles door to door and the wife and I rack up the miles at an alarming rate throughout the year because SIL doesn't drive so it's always us that goes to visit. This distance is not an issue as I can get there and back and still have fuel in the tank. Also, we usually only stop once for a quick toilet break and driver swap at Gloucester Services and it's back on the road.

A 297 mile journey with a single stop is ideal for a modern EV (admittedly not a £5k Leaf). By the time you’ve finished your wee you car will be good to go.

If you put your trust in the car’s sat nav then it will choose the optimal charging point on the way there and back to avoid the need to charge at your destination too.

PS Most grandads could do that 287 mile journey without stopping.

 

[ToeKnee]

Ok, here are my facts as noticed last year.

• I needed a car to last 9 years
• I expected to put approx 360000 miles on it
• I needed it to be reliable or fixable by me (most if not all ice problems)
• I wanted to pay less than £20k for it.

I decided to go diesel Mondeo as it ticked all the above points, the main stumbling block for ev was being able to repair the electrical system/battery if anything should go wrong in the future without spending too much at a garage/dealer. In theory, I'll not need to buy another car in my lifetime now.

 

[ToeKnee]

Whilst museing over what I've written above, how is the electricity used at home calculated for tax purposes? Ie, 99% of my diesel receipts go against my self assessment but how would I prove what electricity I've used to HMRC? Genuine question as I don't know how it works.

 

[Will]

True, but filling up an ice car takes 5 mins and is never a problem. Also, I've never got piss wet through filling up my car in the rain . EVs definitely are very good, and I very much quite fancy a EQS once the managing directors have moved on theirs and nobody else wants the ridiculous luxobarge

Doesn’t take long to pump the fuel obviously, but you still have to find a garage to fill up at - sometimes that involves a slight detour but definitely a stop on route.

And you’ll definitely be standing outside holding that greasy pump handle in the cold/wind the entire time. Rather than less than a minute to plug or unplug a cable

And you still have to stop, which will impact on that 85mph average motorway speed, meaning you’ll need to accelerate hard to 90 just to catch up (can’t have an EV driver beating you to your destination now could we?)

 

[Will]

Long distance means having to travel so far as to necessitate filling up in order to complete the distance required, not a mere 200 miles.

Never realised 200 mile journeys were considered ‘mere’ by most.

I suspect you’d be in the minority there, most people doing more than 200 miles would probably appreciate a stop (ie. comfort break) en-route

 

[Will]

I find that plugging in an EV in the rain gets me about as wet as getting something out of the boot, or getting in/out of the car.

What do you do at the start and end of your journey when it’s raining, or do you only park indoors or undercover?

I’m guessing on the 287 mile journey they don’t take any luggage, and/or they have car ports and automated gates/garage doors at each end

And a butler to pump fuel following behind at the petrol/diesel station before starting

 

[Will]

Ok, here are my facts as noticed last year.

• I needed a car to last 9 years
• I expected to put approx 360000 miles on it
• I needed it to be reliable or fixable by me (most if not all ice problems)
• I wanted to pay less than £20k for it.

I decided to go diesel Mondeo as it ticked all the above points, the main stumbling block for ev was being able to repair the electrical system/battery if anything should go wrong in the future without spending too much at a garage/dealer. In theory, I'll not need to buy another car in my lifetime now.

Interesting requirements (I suspect minicab/hire?)

Interesting only because for such a high mileage user, there is no mention of running costs (fuel/reliability/servicing/repair) on that list

I note the good question about charging and tax on the later post though

Probably for a taxi/minicab driver, good reliability and fuel/charging costs would be equally/more important than the purchase price alone.

I mean £20k averages out over 9 years isn’t a lot annually (£2k a year give or take once you consider a nominal residual value)

You must spend £5k a year on fuel alone?

 

[ToeKnee]

Interesting requirements (I suspect minicab/hire?)

Interesting only because for such a high mileage user, there is no mention of running costs (fuel/reliability/servicing/repair) on that list

I note the good question about charging and tax on the later post though

Probably for a taxi/minicab driver, good reliability and fuel/charging costs would be equally/more important than the purchase price alone.

I mean £20k averages out over 9 years isn’t a lot annually (£2k a year give or take once you consider a nominal residual value)

You must spend £5k a year on fuel alone?

Yes it's for a hackney carriage, so taxi. Purchase price over it's life for me is approx £1500/yr, all maintenance costs last year was just over £900 which included a new set of tyres, £180 ved, and fuel is approx 5k as you said. I currently do approx 140 miles a day so on an ev would need to charge every night? I appreciate I could save fuel costs by going ev but getting a reliable large ev for the price I paid for the Mondeo would possibly be a struggle. As I said, just the facts for me as I see them.

 

[markjay]

Ok, here are my facts as noticed last year.

• I needed a car to last 9 years
• I expected to put approx 360000 miles on it
• I needed it to be reliable or fixable by me (most if not all ice problems)
• I wanted to pay less than £20k for it.

I decided to go diesel Mondeo as it ticked all the above points, the main stumbling block for ev was being able to repair the electrical system/battery if anything should go wrong in the future without spending too much at a garage/dealer. In theory, I'll not need to buy another car in my lifetime now.

Keep in mind that most of those things that you can DIY on an ICE car (engine and transmission), do not exist on an EV.

As for things on the EV that you can't DYI, the list is probably as long as those things that you can't DYI on a modern high-pressure Diesel engine with EU6 emission control.

On balance, there are more things that you can service and fix on an ICE car, but there are less things that can go wrong or require servicing on an EV.

As an example, I got my IONIQ 5 over two years ago. It had one service since, at the two years mark, comprising of some checks (mostly suspension, brakes, and tyres - all good, as you'd expect from a 2 years old car), polen filter chat, and a software update.

It's a bit like the difference between a classic Rolex and a modern Swatch. The Rolex can be repaired, the Swatch can't, but the Swatch is less likely to go wrong to begin with.

 

[ToeKnee]

I agree on all you said @markjay , but it'd only take one battery failure, at say in 5 years time, to make it uneconomical to repair.

 

[Noitz]

Exactly, and for someone starting every day with 200-300 miles in their EV tank, 200 miles is an easy journey.

For ICE owners, usually starting most days with a less than half tank, a visit to a petrol station is vital.

That works both way of course.

 

[MeQ]

Whilst museing over what I've written above, how is the electricity used at home calculated for tax purposes? Ie, 99% of my diesel receipts go against my self assessment but how would I prove what electricity I've used to HMRC? Genuine question as I don't know how it works.

Most chargers and/or cars will give you some sort of usage data.

For example here’s a screenshot from my charging app…

 

[ToeKnee]

Most chargers and/or cars will give you some sort of usage data.

For example here’s a screenshot from my charging app…

View attachment 151611

Thanks for that, so I assume a screenshot of that in sa files for HMRC use would be sufficient. Question answered!

 

[markjay]

Whilst museing over what I've written above, how is the electricity used at home calculated for tax purposes? Ie, 99% of my diesel receipts go against my self assessment but how would I prove what electricity I've used to HMRC? Genuine question as I don't know how it works.

If you charge on a public charger, you'll get a receipt.

If you charge on a granny cable at home from a mains socket, then you probably won't be able to tell how much electricity went into the car.

If you charge at home using a dedicated EV charger, than most smart chargers will be able to show how much electricity was charged.

But ultimately, if you charge at home on a night tariff you'll probably pay less than 10p per kWh, which works out as roughly 3p per mile, so unless you do mega miles it might not even be worth declaring it to HMRC for the tax benefit?

 

[ToeKnee]

If you charge on a public charger, you'll get a receipt.

If you charge on a granny cable at home from a mains socket, then you probably won't be able to tell how much electricity went into the car. If you charge at home using a dedicated EV charger, than most smart chargers will be able to show how much electricity was charged.

But ultimately, if you charge at home on a night tariff you'll probably pay less than 10p per kWh, which works out as roughly 3p per mile, so unless you do mega miles it might not even be worth declaring it to HMRC for the tax benefit?

Again thanks for the info. For clarity I do approx 700 miles a week.

 

[markjay]

I agree on all you said @markjay , but it'd only take one battery failure, at say in 5 years time, to make it uneconomical to repair.

My IONIQ 5 has 8 years warranty for the HV battery.

 

[Petrol Pete]

How about this load of bollock$ I have worked with (welding) robots and wouldn't trust them one inch in this scenario

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[markjay]

Again thanks for the info. For clarity I do approx 700 miles a week.

That's around £20 per week for an average EV, if charging at home on a night tariff.

As above, if you charge on a public charger or using a dedicated home charger, you'll be able to claim it back.

If you charge at home from a mains socket using a granny cable, you won't have a receipt - but you may still declare it based on the charging info in the car itself - your accountant should be able to advide on this.