The EV fact thread

[clk320x]

1,600 posts later........

Rookie numbers.. I’m expecting this to go into 10s of thousands

 

[clk320x]

If you like Romanesque porticos and an easy to clean uPVC finish, then yes, they do

?

There are plenty of detached Victorian era properties with beautiful original features with off road parking spaces?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I might be tempted to care about the environment if countries like India, China, Africa etc. were making significant efforts in cutting pollution. Simply put, they're not. Then there are the thousands of container and cargo ships polluting the atmosphere on an epic scale 24/7 365 days of the year, not to mention civil aviation (and yes I know about the so-called 'green' sustainable fuel' as I've recently retired from the industry). The current ultra lean burn ICE engines are not the major players in world pollution IMHO. As a result I'm quite happy with my ICE Merc. However I will concede that EV transport for densely populated cities isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Pardon? China has a population of 1,400,000,000 that would all be buying ICE cars had not the country made that conscious decision to skip ICE and go straight to EV. (The half of the world that lives in Asia looks on in awe)

Isn’t that the most obvious step towards CO2 reduction?

You’re right that both North America and the EU are doing very little to reduce their ridiculous CO2 / head output, but isn’t the EV and general mobility transition, as well as all the changes in Agriculture, manufacturing and transport, a significant step?

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[Bobby Dazzler]

I might be tempted to care about the environment if countries like India, China, Africa etc. were making significant efforts in cutting pollution.

For as long as we say “I’ll change when they change” then nothing will ever change.

 

[Noitz]

For as long as we say “I’ll change when they change” then nothing will ever change.

In the great scheme of things does anything need to change? Who told you anything needs to change? Mother Nature is wonderful at looking after herself and doesn't need humans in order to maintain her well being.
IMHO humans as a species are so arrogant and conceited thinking that the planet is theirs to police and care for. We are just a small moment in time of this planets life clock and certainly won't be around as long as the dinosaurs were.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

IMHO humans as a species are so arrogant and conceited thinking that the planet is theirs to police and care for. We are just a small moment in time of this planets life clock and certainly won't be around as long as the dinosaurs were.

I have no doubt that the planet will eventually recover and will actually be better off without humans. Looking out for the planet is looking out for humanity.

Leaving smaller footprints can’t be a bad thing, and lighter use of limited resources means that they’ll be available for longer, giving us and future generations more time to find an alternative.

 

[markjay]

The argument that says "whatever we do won't make a difference because other countries pollute more than we do" has another side to it.

Regardless of the immediate impact of our actions, it's also a question of living by our values.

As an example, 80% of the world's population do not live in a proper democracy with personal liberties and human rights. We in the West do, because this is what we believe in. Etc.

If we don't think it's right to damage the planer, then we shouldn't be doing that, regardless of what other countries do or don't do.

 

[philnewmerc]

?

There are plenty of detached Victorian era properties with beautiful original features with off road parking spaces?

Relax, I'm joking. There's no need to knock down the UPVC portico just yet.

But seriously, what proportion of the housing stock is detached Victorian property with original features? Besides which, that sort of property tends to be in the countryside, where most houses have a driveway. It's people in flats, or villas, or terraces in towns that don't tend to have a driveway, which is exactly where you would want to have more electric cars and not fewer. I know on the street charging will eventually come, and I think it will be quite nice actually to have a full tank most days. But for the time being people with a driveway and an electric car are saving a small fortune and by the time it's suitable for me electricity will be as expensive as petrol... Which is why I'm so bitter and twisted about it ha ha

 

[ChipChop]

Wonder what caused the medieval 600 year long warm period around 700 years prior to the Industrial revolution? Puts any theories of human influenced anthropogenic climate change in perspective.
As does the notion that consuming new stuff shipped in from the other side of the planet to replace perfectly functional existing stuff.
The current incarnation of save the planet environmentalism appears to be merely a different slant on rampant consumerism.

 

[philnewmerc]

Wonder what caused the medieval 600 year long warm period around 700 years prior to the Industrial revolution? Puts any theories of human influenced anthropogenic climate change in perspective.
As does the notion that consuming new stuff shipped in from the other side of the planet to replace perfectly functioning existing stuff. The current incarnation of save the planet environmentalism appears to be merely a different slant on rampant consumerism.

It could be. Or we could accept that consumerism is what drives progress. Having power stations operating at a more even output, ie charging lots of electric cars at night when there used to be low electricity demand seems very sensible to me. And having clean air in towns so that kids don't grow up with asthma also seems fairly reasonable... What I don't quite understand is that if we do reach majority renewable energy production, then the advantage ie cheapness of charging overnight will not be there anymore. But, the logical time to charge will be overnight still. So I wonder if overnight charging will be more expensive than daytime charging??

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Wonder what caused the medieval 600 year long warm period around 700 years prior to the Industrial revolution?

Periods of warming and cooling are part of the natural climatic cycles of planet Earth, and will continue to be. They’re usually caused by an often-interdependent combination of factors such as changes in volcanic activity, atmospheric/oceanic currents, solar activity, etc. but you knew that.

 

[ChipChop]

It could be. Or we could accept that consumerism is what drives progress. Having power stations operating at a more even output, ie charging lots of electric cars at night when there used to be low electricity demand seems very sensible to me. And having clean air in towns so that kids don't grow up with asthma also seems fairly reasonable... What I don't quite understand is that if we do reach majority renewable energy production, then the advantage ie cheapness of charging overnight will not be there anymore. But, the logical time to charge will be overnight still. So I wonder if overnight charging will be more expensive than daytime charging??

The whole climate emergency narrative is based on human causes post industrial revolution. Seems a stretch to then suggest post industrial revolution consumerism will drive progressive policies. Then again the whole climate narrative is so full of non sequiturs, see your example of cheap off peak EV electricity that becomes peak electricity, anything appears possible.

 

[ChipChop]

Periods of warming and cooling are part of the natural climatic cycles of planet Earth, and will continue to be. They’re usually caused by an often-interdependent combination of factors such as changes in volcanic activity, atmospheric/oceanic currents, solar activity, etc. but you knew that.

Yet we are now apparently in a climate emergency despite change being the default for earths climate since time in memoriam. That means prior to human influences.

 

[markjay]

Wonder what caused the medieval 600 year long warm period around 700 years prior to the Industrial revolution? Puts any theories of human influenced anthropogenic climate change in perspective.
As does the notion that consuming new stuff shipped in from the other side of the planet to replace perfectly functional existing stuff.
The current incarnation of save the planet environmentalism appears to be merely a different slant on rampant consumerism.

The reality is that consumerism and prosperity go hand in hand.

It's a tough one, creating jobs by making and shipping stuff that people will buy, while not killing the planet, I agree.

There are native tribes in Africa and South America and other places whose way of life remained unchanged for thousands of years if not more, and they live in perfect harmony with the nature surrounding them. They build no permanent structures and leave nothing after them. Perhaps we, the rest of humanity, got all this 'progress' thing wrong?

 

[markjay]

Yet we are now apparently in a climate emergency despite change being the default for earths climate since time in memoriam. That means prior to human influences.

Time in memorian? Young man, I remember well how back in the sixties we were encouraged to use as much electricity as we could, in fact there was a notion then that it's only a question of time before energy will be free for all. New build houses where often fitted with underfloor electric heating in anticipation of free electricity from nuclear power plants.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Yet we are now apparently in a climate emergency despite change being the default for earths climate since time in memoriam. That means prior to human influences.

Perhaps it’s rate of change which worries those who are experts in such matters.

 

[grober]

Wonder what caused the medieval 600 year long warm period around 700 years prior to the Industrial revolution? Puts any theories of human influenced anthropogenic climate change in perspective.
As does the notion that consuming new stuff shipped in from the other side of the planet to replace perfectly functional existing stuff.
The current incarnation of save the planet environmentalism appears to be merely a different slant on rampant consumerism.

What sort of global satelite imagery did they have back then? Without that capability there is likely to be no conclusive answer to your question. At a guess the answer lies with a lengthy period of increased volcanicity directly or its indirect biological consequences. Sort of mini Deccan Traps?

 

[ALFAitalia]

Yet we are now apparently in a climate emergency despite change being the default for earths climate since time in memoriam. That means prior to human influences.

NEVER....EVER.....has the temperature risen so fast in the history of the planet....compared to how its risen since the industrial revolution....evidence from ice cores and rocks proves this.. The fact that humans are causing or at the very least massively speeding up the current temp rise has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt by thousands of independent (non gov funded) scientists globally. I didnt want to believe it either being a petrol head..but that's the fact of the matter.

Evidence - NASA Science

Takeaways The rate of change since the mid-20th century is unprecedented over millennia. Earth’s climate has changed throughout history. Just in the last 800,000 years, there have been eight cycles of ice ages and warmer periods, with the end of the last ice age about 11,700 years ago marking...

climate.nasa.gov

 

[ChipChop]

The reality is that consumerism and prosperity go hand in hand.

It's a tough one, creating jobs by making and shipping stuff that people will buy, while not killing the planet, I agree.

There are native tribes in Africa and South America and other places whose way of life remained unchanged for thousands of years if not more, and they live in perfect harmony with the nature surrounding them. They build no permanent structures and leave nothing after them. Perhaps we, the rest of humanity, got all this 'progress' thing wrong?

It is not a tough one at all. You buy products made locally not made on the other side of the world.

 

[ChipChop]

Time in memorian? Young man, I remember well how back in the sixties we were encouraged to use as much electricity as we could, in fact there was a notion then that it's only a question of time before energy will be free for all. New build houses where often fitted with underfloor electric heating in anticipation of free electricity from nuclear power plants.

And the emerging technology of Artificial Intelligence is predicted to use more electricity than EV's. Appears some are still allowed to use as much electricity as they like.