The EV fact thread

[markjay]

Quick question, will any current EVs become classics in 20 to 40 years time, or will they be like the iPhone 4 compared to the iPhone 15, i.e. practically useless?

I'm thinking anything with 200 miles is adequate so maybe they will if pretty/cool?

Is the Sinclair C5 a classic yet?

 

[philnewmerc]

So how many miles do you drive each day?

200? 300? Could you not charge overnight?

EV drivers keep saying this, and it is fair comment. However, on a longer journey we're also told that the optimum battery condition is to charge 10 to 80 % (or something like that) and the EV map I downloaded (ABRP) to investigate EV trips vs my own current ice ones always wants me to stop multiple times because after 50% charge the fill up time tails off. So, are you really going from near empty to near full on your own trips?

 

[Will]

EV drivers keep saying this, and it is fair comment. However, on a longer journey we're also told that the optimum battery condition is to charge 10 to 80 % (or something like that) and the EV map I downloaded (ABRP) to investigate EV trips vs my own current ice ones always wants me to stop multiple times because after 50% charge the fill up time tails off. So, are you really going from near empty to near full on your own trips?

For the record, I’m not an EV driver.

But if I was and needed to drive a long distance I’d probably top up at home before setting off.

For routine use around town and less extensive journeys you’d probably do as you say and keep a more moderate level of charge if that was beneficial to battery health

 

[molgrips]

The speed may diminish after 50% but what usually limits it is temperature - if it's too hot or cold it will modulate the power. Depending on the sophistication of your car, it may use some of the charging power to warm or cool the battery to the optimum temperature. However on most cars it doesn't get a lot slower until 80 or 90%. I have charged over 90% before but only because I was sitting in the sun, chilling out with my drink, no-one was waiting for the spot and I was not in a rush. I feel that many EV haters don't experience this kind of enjoyment

 

[Noitz]

Here's one for the EVangelists to get hot and sweaty about:

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[markjay]

EV drivers keep saying this, and it is fair comment. However, on a longer journey we're also told that the optimum battery condition is to charge 10 to 80 % (or something like that) and the EV map I downloaded (ABRP) to investigate EV trips vs my own current ice ones always wants me to stop multiple times because after 50% charge the fill up time tails off. So, are you really going from near empty to near full on your own trips?

Not quite.

It's not healthy for Li-ion batteries to sit idle fully charged (the same applies to your laptop and phone, BTW). For this reason, if you're just topping up with no immediate plans on travelling, you should ideally only charge the battery to 80%. However, there's no issue with charging the battery to 100% on the evening before driving on a long journey - in fact it's recommended to do just that at least once a month to optimise the battery packs synchronisation. Just try avoid having a fully charged car sitting on your drive for days without going anywhere.

The other reason you might want to stop charging at 80% is when you're charging on the go, because the charging from 80% to 100% is slower (it's the same for your 12v battery in an ICE car, BTW) and so it's quicker if you stop charging at 80% and continue your journey.

As for ABRP, it doesn't work very well as a desktop exercise, instead you need to buy the licenced version that links to your car's live data. This way it knows exactly the charging rate and battery SOC at any given point of time and can plan the optimal route for your specific vehicle.

 

[markjay]

For the record, I’m not an EV driver.

But if I was and needed to drive a long distance I’d probably top up at home before setting off.

For routine use around town and less extensive journeys you’d probably do as you say and keep a more moderate level of charge if that was beneficial to battery health

I regularly top up to 80%, and only charge to 100% the night before I plan a longer trip.

 

[markjay]

Here's one for the EVangelists to get hot and sweaty about:

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So the battery lasts 500,000-600,000 km....

 

[philnewmerc]

. I have charged over 90% before but only because I was sitting in the sun, chilling out with my drink, no-one was waiting for the spot and I was not in a rush. I feel that many EV haters don't experience this kind of enjoyment

There's no UK service station I'd like to chill at!... France ok yeah

 

[molgrips]

It's not healthy for Li-ion batteries to sit idle fully charged

I believe this is the case for NMC batteries, but not for LFP. NMC is much more common but there are some LFP cars on the market.

 

[molgrips]

There's no UK service station I'd like to chill at!

That time I wasn't at a service station, I was in a town. My best charging experience was stopping at a small town in Mid Wales, we walked to a bakery for some food and sat on a wall chilling and eating. Actually better than just driving. I'd expect conservatively minded folks would enjoy having to stop and enjoy the places along the way just like the old days - I certainly did.

Of course, it was during the day, the shops were open, the weather was pleasant and we weren't in a rush. I am also male and had a male companion which makes a difference. A solo female at night may not have enjoyed themselves as much...

 

[Dryce]

I regularly top up to 80%, and only charge to 100% the night before I plan a longer trip.

What are you charging ? 80% of what ?

So you have a battery - it contains a given number of cells. Say 100 for simplifying this example. Does 80% mean 100 cells charged to 80% per cell or 80 cells charged to 100% and 20 at 0% or some other combination.

Even a 100% figure might not be real - suppose you have a clever battery with 110 cells and it balances a managed capacity across the 110 giving the capacity of 100 but extending the life of the battery as a whole?

 

[Steveml63]

What are you charging ? 80% of what ?

So you have a battery - it contains a given number of cells. Say 100 for simplifying this example. Does 80% mean 100 cells charged to 80% per cell or 80 cells charged to 100% and 20 at 0% or some other combination.

Even a 100% figure might not be real - suppose you have a clever battery with 110 cells and it balances a managed capacity across the 110 giving the capacity of 100 but extending the life of the battery as a whole?

EVs have very clever charging hardware & software (especially Teslas).
On the NMC batteries when you charge to 80% - the battery management system charges and balances all the cells to 80% of their maximum capacity.
If you charge to 100% regularly you will shorten the life of the battery pack (except the latest LFP batteries that need to be regularly charged to !00%!)
The other reason that 100% is not ideal, except for long journeys - is that for the first few miles the brake regeneration does not work and you need to press the normal brakes to slow down or stop. This is because the regeneration cannot work if the battery is already full!
Like old cars with a reserve tank - EVs have two quoted battery capacities - the max capacity and the useable capacity.
Even when you see 0% battery and 0 miles range - there is still a few miles of reserve range left (and even then the batteries do not fully discharge as I believe this could also damage them).
Both our EVs have two charging ports - once for AC charging at home for low speed charging and DC for high speed charging.
For AC charging - the actual charger circuit is built into the car - our Tesla charges at 11.3 kw at home and our BMW iX charges at a rate of 10.7kw at home - the wall box is simply a way of getting the AC power to the car.
For DC charging it is best to “route” to a charger via the cars navigation software - so that the battery pack can be pre-warmed ready to except the high speed DC charge.
This is also important when routing to a Tesla Supercharger - as Tesla use the information from each car that is routing to a charging station to let you know whether a stall is likely to be free when you arrive or how long you might need to wait.
Their software sees how fast you are driving and how far you are away - along with the state of charge and time left required to charge any cars already using one of the stalls at the charging station (it’s actually a well integrated and clever software system!)
DC charging works best on pre-warmed battery packs that are at 20% or less state of charge - it then starts charging very quickly and the charge rate slows down as the battery pack “fills up”.

 

[markjay]

BTW, the battery management system for your ICE car will charge the 12v battery at 14.3-14.5v up to 80%, and it will then trickle&charge it at 13.5-13.7v up to 100%.

 

[markjay]

BT Group to turn old street cabinets into electric vehicle charging points

Up to 60,000 could be converted to tackle a shortfall in electric car charging points, the group says.

www.google.com

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I wasn't trying to compare it to anything. It's simply an inconvenient and unnecessary compromise in my humble opinion, but that's the choice you've made and I'm sure you're more than happy with that choice.

Should have bought a house with off street parking, like two thirds of UK homes.

It’s tough being a Londoner.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

There's no UK service station I'd like to chill at!... France ok yeah

What makes you think that chargers aren’t outside restaurants, bars and shops?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

10 minutes to add 100 miles at Gatwick / M23

Gridserve opens new Gatwick site with 30 EV chargers | Autocar

First major charging hub at a European airport is Gridserve’s third in UK; more to quickly follow

buff.ly

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

BT Group to turn old street cabinets into electric vehicle charging points

Up to 60,000 could be converted to tackle a shortfall in electric car charging points, the group says.

www.google.com

Presumably with the physical connection point in the other side of the pavement?

 

[philnewmerc]

What makes you think that chargers aren’t outside restaurants, bars and shops?

View attachment 151644

I don't.

But I don't want to chill at a Starbucks, or lie in the sunshine on a dog turd minefield... I'd be happy to chill in the car though, assuming I'm not in a queue for precious electrons while waiting to be enraged by the Audi driver who pushes in.