The EV fact thread

[Smiley]

Hybrid is the practical and sensible way forward...for now.

Hybrids are the absolute worst choice; heavily marketed by car companies desparate to reduce total emissions of car sales and preying on people's inability to make a decision. Either buy a BEV if that's what suits you or stick with a petrol but don't fall for over complexity of a mixture of both.

 

[Smiley]

I just wonder what happens to an EV resale value at 7-8 years or just before the battery warranty runs out ?

It is pretty easy to see the answer to that right now. There are plenty of 2016/17 EVs for sale from Tesla at the high end to Leafs at the low end. The residuals behave pretty much like older ICE cars - they get cheaper as they get older....and a bit more quickly because the depreciation is steeper than ICE in the early years. That's probably because the EVs sold in the last decade have been sold at relatively high prices and used buyers are a bit more savvy.
Used one to three year old EVs are starting to look pretty cheap but only worth considering if you can charge at home.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Do you own one of the fastest selling used cars of 2023?

If you've ever attempted to sell a second-hand car, you will be well aware that it can sometimes be an arduous affair. But f the vehicle in question is one of these 10 motors.

mol.im

Only 2 EVs made it to the top 10....

“Only?”

Astonishing that it’s that many as most of the top 10, and most of the top ten selling cars generally, are small, cheap, lightweight hatchbacks.

Could it be that used EV prices have “crashed” due to the volume of three year old ex-lease EV’s coming through, combine with “nervous” pricing by dealers wanting to move them off the lot?

 

[Steveml63]

That might be, but you're avoiding the uncomfortable fact as to why they are offloading EVs en mass. The truth is that nobody wants to hire them and they cost too much to run and maintain, not to mention crash damage. The slightest bump and they're written off.

I thought that this was supposed to be the “EV facts thread”!
People are hiring the Hertz EVs in masses!
They cost far less to maintain than their ICE cars!
Slight bumps do not cause them to be written off!
The main reason they are offloading them is that they bought them at the top of the market when Tesla prices were their highest.
Tesla then reduced their prices considerably since and Hertz want to minimize their potential loss on the difference between what they originally paid and a depreciating asset.
The other true facts are that EV specific tyres are more expensive than their exactly equivalent non-EV version (this difference is likely to reduce in coming years due to increased volumes)
Crash repairs are more expensive - because repairers care making it so.

This is the link to the interview with the CEO of Hertz that explains their decision to offload some Teslas

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[Mactech]

Hybrids are the absolute worst choice; heavily marketed by car companies desparate to reduce total emissions of car sales and preying on people's inability to make a decision. Either buy a BEV if that's what suits you or stick with a petrol but don't fall for over complexity of a mixture of both.

I my experience this only partly true. If I compare my previous car (mild hybrid/diesel A8) with my current diesel Macan, the Audi saved 20% of fuel.
These cars run the same base engine, are both 4WD and similar weights. Where they differ is that the A8 is much more slippery (0.26 vs 0.35 cd) and benefits from having a 'starternator' replacing the both the starter and alternator of the Macan. Virtually no more complication and a 20% fuel saving.
On the other side, I didn't get a hybrid BMW i3 as they were older and carried 125Kgs weight penalty over the lightweight pure EV version.
It's difficult to make sweeping generalisations.

 

[SmartAmg]

I thought that this was supposed to be the “EV facts thread”!

We lost (sensible, true) facts about EVs a long time ago on this thread.

 

[markjay]

We lost (sensible, true) facts about EVs a long time ago on this thread.

The subject is 'facts'. This means all sorts of facts. Including made-up facts, false facts, fake facts.... etc.

 

[SmartAmg]

The subject is 'facts'. This means all sorts of facts. Including made-up facts, false facts, fake facts.... etc.

Is that fact.

 

[grober]

Oxford dictionary
FACT=a thing that is known or proved to be true.
The word itself implies truth
a "false fact" can't exist in linguistically its self contradictory --its more accurately described as "false information"

 

[ChipChop]

What interesting times we live in. Where any negative comment on social media about EV's is punished by an instant passive aggressive response.

Awaits passive aggressive response.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I thought that this was supposed to be the “EV facts thread”!
People are hiring the Hertz EVs in masses!
They cost far less to maintain than their ICE cars!
Slight bumps do not cause them to be written off!
The main reason they are offloading them is that they bought them at the top of the market when Tesla prices were their highest.
Tesla then reduced their prices considerably since and Hertz want to minimize their potential loss on the difference between what they originally paid and a depreciating asset.
The other true facts are that EV specific tyres are more expensive than their exactly equivalent non-EV version (this difference is likely to reduce in coming years due to increased volumes)
Crash repairs are more expensive - because repairers care making it so.

This is the link to the interview with the CEO of Hertz that explains their decision to offload some Teslas

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Accept third party cookies

Hertz have repeatedly said that Tesla’s cost more to keep running in terms of repair cost, component availability and time off road. Tesla 3’s and Y’s aren’t an easy fix for the local generalist garage, electrician or body shop.

Hertz pulls back on EV plans citing Tesla price cuts, high repair costs

Hertz now has 35,000 Tesla vehicles and around 50,000 electric vehicles in its fleet.

www.cnbc.com

The mantra that EVs cost less to run than ICE’s because of their drivetrain has always been a suspicious claim.

Obviously the drivetrain is simple BUT where’s the economy of scale of a volume producer such as Ford or Toyota. And who has drivetrain issues anyway?

Most of us cluck (not a typo) about tyres, wheels, suspension, alignment, minor electrical, control systems, bodywork, wind noise, windscreens, panel fit, paint, infotainment, water intrusion etc. EV’s are no silver bullet against these issues and costs.

And then there’s just bad design. For anyone renting regularly, we just want to jump into a car, adjust the seat, mirrors, attach the phone, set up the Nav / CarPlay and drive off. That’s simply Much easier in a Kia or Ionia EV, or a VW / BMW ICE.

 

[Noitz]

Hertz have repeatedly said that Tesla’s cost more to keep running in terms of repair cost and time off road.

The mantra that EVs cost less to run than ICE’s because of their drivetrain has always been a suspicious claim.

Obviously the drivetrain is simple BUT where’s the economy of scale of a volume producer such as Ford or Toyota. And who has drivetrain issues anyway?

Most of us cluck about tyres, wheels, suspension, alignment, minor electrical, control systems, bodywork, windscreens, panel fit, paint, infotainment, water intrusion etc etc

And then there’s just bad design. For anyone renting regularly, we just want to jump into a car, adjust the seat, mirrors, attach the phone, set up the Nav / CarPlay and drive off. Much easier in a Kia or Ionia EV, or a VW / BMW ICE.

Added to that is the fact that many older people, myself included, wouldn't be able to easily gel with, or fully understand the oversized tablet on the dash of most EVs that has replaced simple switches and levers which can easily be used. Many car manufacturers over the years have these situated in roughly the same place so they are familiar to operate without taking one's eyes off the road for any lengthy period of time. I for one don't use satnav, or have even paired my phone to any car I've owned, it's a distraction I just don't need.
KISS works just fine for me.

 

[SmartAmg]

What interesting times we live in. Where any negative comment on social media about EV's is punished by an instant passive aggressive response.

Awaits passive aggressive response.

Don't mind negative comments about EVs at all, coz they are obviously not perfect, by any means. Just the bullsh1t that's spouted about them.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Added to that is the fact that many older people, myself included, wouldn't be able to easily gel with, or fully understand the oversized tablet on the dash of most EVs that has replaced simple switches and levers which can easily be used. Many car manufacturers over the years have these situated in roughly the same place so they are familiar to operate without taking one's eyes off the road for any lengthy period of time. I for one don't use satnav, or have even paired my phone to any car I've owned, it's a distraction I just don't need.
KISS works just fine for me.

Exactly, which is why you’d prefer a Kia or Ioniq EV over the Tesla. Intuitive ergonomics and buttons.

 

[ALFAitalia]

What interesting times we live in. Where any negative comment on social media about EV's is punished by an instant passive aggressive response.

Awaits passive aggressive response.

Trying not to be aggressive.......

Negative comments are fine.....if that's your opinion that's absolutely great and you are 100% entitled to say it without getting an angry reply. The difference in this thread (and many other EV threads on this and other forums i frequent) is that many....I might even say most....of the negative comments are not just a different opinion, they are complete and utter BS without a scrap of evidence to back them up, from members with not one scrap of EV experience.....such as the difficulty/frequency of charging nonsense that's complete rubbish and been recycled dozens of times.....that gets people who actually have experience or have done research and know the facts, cross. To be honest its the people posting the crap that seem to get most angry!!......like they are being forced into EVs next week against their will and their ICE cars are being publicly burned!! Negative opinions on EVs?....fine. Posting nonsense as fact.....not fine!

 

[Petrol Pete]

Hertz.

As I understand it is that they ordered 100000 Teslas as part of a big green EV push and were given a certificate (for a$$ kissing , I think) by the Whitehouse for helping the green thing.

Tesla shares rocketed.

Fast forward a year or two and someone at Hertz got a new battery in their calculator and decided it was a bad idea...a really bad idea to continue with the Tesla dream and binned it.

Of course car rental companies sell off stock while it still has value , I hire a lot of cars in the USA (usually AVIS) and quite often I will collect a car and hanging on the mirror and the keyring is an advert asking me if I would like to buy this particular car even though it has low mileage , and a website address to visit to see what's available.

The Hertz Tesla dump is something quite different.

Apropos of nothing . When collecting an Avis car in the USA/Canada I qualify for an upgrade and I often ask what is available 'above' my upgrade and sometimes I get it gratis and sometimes I add a few dollars more to get me into something interesting.

Using this I have driven Camaros SS, Mustangs, Challengers, Chargers, Nissan V8 Titan trucks ... But what was never offered to me was a Tesla , despite (especially in San Francisco) loads of them just sitting there.

I have no idea why (next time I will ask) , maybe it's because my rental periods are quite long 20, 30 or even more than 40 days . No idea You would think that when I leave the airport I head straight into silicone valley where Tesla supercharges are everywhere and Tesla facilities are all over the area I work in and some of the people I work with are ex (or even future) Tesla employees.

You would think I would be in just the right place to be given a Tesla to whizz around in.

Anyway , enough waffle from me , this is supposed to be a fact based thread. I should know , I am the OP

 

[markjay]

What interesting times we live in. Where any negative comment on social media about EV's is punished by an instant passive aggressive response.

Awaits passive aggressive response.

I am not talking to you. So there.......

 

[markjay]

Added to that is the fact that many older people, myself included, wouldn't be able to easily gel with, or fully understand the oversized tablet on the dash of most EVs that has replaced simple switches and levers which can easily be used. Many car manufacturers over the years have these situated in roughly the same place so they are familiar to operate without taking one's eyes off the road for any lengthy period of time. I for one don't use satnav, or have even paired my phone to any car I've owned, it's a distraction I just don't need.
KISS works just fine for me.

True, though the 'oversized tablet' - spearheaded by Tesla and followed by other EVs - is slowly creeping in to all cars, including ICE.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Added to that is the fact that many older people, myself included, wouldn't be able to easily gel with, or fully understand the oversized tablet on the dash of most EVs that has replaced simple switches and levers which can easily be used. Many car manufacturers over the years have these situated in roughly the same place so they are familiar to operate without taking one's eyes off the road for any lengthy period of time. I for one don't use satnav, or have even paired my phone to any car I've owned, it's a distraction I just don't need.
KISS works just fine for me.

The industry-wide adoption of soft buttons (on a screen) - instead of physical buttons - is a “car” thing rather than an “EV” thing.

Those people who find the use of touchscreens difficult will find modern ICE cars as challenging as EVs, so this will be a problem with rental cars, not rental EVs.

 

[ChipChop]

Don't mind negative comments about EVs at all, coz they are obviously not perfect, by any means. Just the bullsh1t that's spouted about them.

Very expensive and not perfect. Sounds like they deserve all the criticism they get. Tesla's atrocious panel gaps for instance should not be a common feature on a 'premium' product.