The EV fact thread

[Bobby Dazzler]

Thanks for the explanation. I'm fairly sure I pay around 25p per kilowatt hour after using one of those comparison sites... How is it possible to pay 13p?

Sorry for the confusion, I meant 23p but typed 13p, and having checked it’a actually just over 26p.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Haven’t looked into this for a while also, but when I did previously I think the 7p off peak tariffs increased the regular unit price by around 1p per kWh.

Not a huge increase but if you’re using a lot more electricity during the daytime then you’d need to run the figures.

I guess those that can store energy (powerwall etc) could probably take advantage of these rates also and if you can time washing machines/dishwashers etc effectively it could work out good value.

Even at 25p per kWh, at say 3 or 4 miles per kWh you’d be looking at 6-8p a mile. A lot less than petrol or diesel cars on average still.

Thanks Will.

I’ve not done the maths but based upon a few very quick checks I’m fairly confident that we’ll save some money by switching to Eon Next Drive. It looks like it’s improved since last time I looked a year ago.

Off peak is from 0000 (midnight) until 0700 at a rate of 6.7p per kWh. As you suggested it’s just 1.2p per kWh more than we’re paying at the moment, and the standing charge is the same.

Gas is even 0.8p per kWh less than we’re paying today, and the standing charge is also the same as it is today. Combined Eon suggest that we will save around £1450 per annum, although I’m not sure what assumptions that is based on.

However just paying 20p less per kWh for 7 hours or 30% of the day, should add up to a fair saving, and if we schedule the charging the EV to charge overnight then that will add further.

 

[Will]

However just paying 20p less per kWh for 7 hours or 30% of the day, should add up to a fair saving, and if we schedule the charging the EV to charge overnight then that will add further.

I guess it depends on how many kWh you’ll be using during those 7 hours.

If you’re charging daily and for most of that period then you’ll probably save quite a bit.

If you’re only charging 2 or 3 times a week, perhaps not so much?

I think these tariffs really suit commuters/heavy users who are out all day and then can charge overnight (and perhaps use the appliances mainly off peak too!) - unless you’ve got storage capacity.

But there’s no real downside even at 25/26p per unit, still a lot cheaper than public charging and other alternatives

 

[philnewmerc]

Well, it seems a no brainer to charge at home. Three questions spring to mind: 1) Will homes with off street parking rise in worth faster than those without in the next decade? 2) Is it fair to force those without off street parking to pay more for 'fuel' for their car travel? 3) When all the no-driveway homeowners have to pay at least double what driveway owners do for their car travel will they put up with it?

Obviously if i had a home with a drive I'd think it was very fair

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Well, it seems a no brainer to charge at home. Three questions spring to mind: 1) Will homes with off street parking rise in worth faster than those without in the next decade? 2) Is it fair to force those without off street parking to pay more for 'fuel' for their car travel? 3) When all the no-driveway homeowners have to pay at least double what driveway owners do for their car travel will they put up with it?

Obviously if i had a home with a drive I'd think it was very fair

Sounds overly optimistic as a cost driver.

A third of UK homes don't have off street parking, and a fair chunk of those will be the homes of folk who don't own cars at all. They're living in towns, working locally, and wrinklies sticking to the old tech.

What's the annual saving anyway? Not much more than £500 a year. It's hard to see that driving a change in property values. Asmarter choice of your local council: that would make a real difference, insulating your home properly, or just by running an older EV (Like a £9k ancient 2017 BMW I3, which would need to be plugged in a "jaw dropping" twice a week)

More likely you'll see greater competition on charge rates: commercially and within car parks as a loss leader. (Office car parks, supermarket parking etc) At the end of the day, electricity is cheap, the only thing that makes it expensive initially is the install cost in the first place, thereafter it's cheap as chips.

 

[markjay]

Sounds overly optimistic as a cost driver.

A third of UK homes don't have off street parking, and a fair chunk of those will be the homes of folk who don't own cars at all. They're living in towns, working locally, and wrinklies sticking to the old tech.

What's the annual saving anyway? Not much more than £500 a year. It's hard to see that driving a change in property values. Asmarter choice of your local council: that would make a real difference, insulating your home properly, or just by running an older EV (Like a £9k ancient 2017 BMW I3, which would need to be plugged in a "jaw dropping" twice a week)

More likely you'll see greater competition on charge rates: commercially and within car parks as a loss leader. (Office car parks, supermarket parking etc) At the end of the day, electricity is cheap, the only thing that makes it expensive initially is the install cost in the first place, thereafter it's cheap as chips.

Agreed.

Obviously, for some EV owners, a driveway for cheap charging will be a must when looking to move house, just like some pet owner want a back garden or a park in close proximity, but these are personal choices and unlikely to be a significant cost driver across the board.

 

[Will]

I think homes with off street parking will always be worth more or easier to sell than those without (obviously!).

An EV charger would be a selling point I guess for those who need one, and maybe for those who want to future proof a bit. Perhaps the cost of installing one isn’t bad value after all?

 

[poormansporsche]

 

[poormansporsche]

I think homes with off street parking will always be worth more or easier to sell than those without (obviously!).

An EV charger would be a selling point I guess for those who need one, and maybe for those who want to future proof a bit. Perhaps the cost of installing one isn’t bad value after all?

A house in my road was recently tarted up for sale which included a bright green flashing EV charger being fitted. They obviously thought it would add value / make it easier to sell.

(The new owners have a 25 year old Audi A4 )

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

A house in my road was recently tarted up for sale which included a bright green flashing EV charger being fitted. They obviously thought it would add value / make it easier to sell.

(The new owners have a 25 year old Audi A4 )

And, of course, from 2022, every new home built that has “ an associated parking place” has to have an EV charger installed and ready, regardless of whether the first owner wants it.

Includes flats and homes where the parking place isn’t physically next to the property.

 

[ALFAitalia]

People with no offscreen parking already pay more for insurance....no one seems to worry about that.

 

[BTB 500]

And, of course, from 2022, every new home built that has “ an associated parking place” has to have an EV charger installed and ready, regardless of whether the first owner wants it.

Includes flats and homes where the parking place isn’t physically next to the property.

Do new build homes have to have an associated parking place though? I think some councils insist on it, but it's not a national requirement AFAIK (I could be wrong - happy to be corrected).

For flats etc. the associated charger some distance away presumably wouldn't be on the same supply circuit as the property, so how would the supplier / tariff / billing work?? Does this charger have to be solely for the specific property? If not can they just provide a number of commercial chargers in the parking area ... which wouldn't really be home charging as most people understand the term.

The UK average is 1.2 cars per household, so in an all-EV future a single (slow) charging point per property might not cut it anyway.

 

[markjay]

Do new build homes have to have an associated parking place though? I think some councils insist on it, but it's not a national requirement AFAIK (I could be wrong - happy to be corrected)....

I don't know anything about the requirements to fit EV chargers, but I do know that in London all new home must have at least one parking bay per flat, for the last 30 years at least.

In densely-populated areas this was typically achieved by digging an underground car park.

But more recently, some local Councils are now permitting redevelopment in areas where's only street parking on the condition thar the leases must contain a clause that says the the leaseholders are aware that they are not entitled to a Resident Parking Permit from the local Council, effectively meaning that the newly-built flats can only be occupied by tenants who do not have a car and do not intend to get one either.

 

[markjay]

....The UK average is 1.2 cars per household, so in an all-EV future a single (slow) charging point per property might not cut it anyway.

True, in theory.

In practical terms, an all-EV future is at least 30 years away, and in any event it will take a couple hundred years before all existing flats and housing stock has been redeveloped with a single (slow) charging point....

What will likely happen from 30 years from now is that people will continue to live in places without dedicated parking and will charge their EVs using public chargers.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Do new build homes have to have an associated parking place though? I think some councils insist on it, but it's not a national requirement AFAIK (I could be wrong - happy to be corrected).

For flats etc. the associated charger some distance away presumably wouldn't be on the same supply circuit as the property, so how would the supplier / tariff / billing work?? Does this charger have to be solely for the specific property? If not can they just provide a number of commercial chargers in the parking area ... which wouldn't really be home charging as most people understand the term.

The UK average is 1.2 cars per household, so in an all-EV future a single (slow) charging point per property might not cut it anyway.

No they don't and couldn't.

It's "if" they have an associated parking space.

So not if there's a general parking area, but yes, if there's a parking space committed to that specific house or flat

 

[Will]

The UK average is 1.2 cars per household, so in an all-EV future a single (slow) charging point per property might not cut it anyway.

Is that not assuming every home with more than one car not only can only have a single charging point, but also that every single car at that household would need charging every single day or something?

And that those drivers also don’t charge at their place of work, or publicly.

Really doesn’t sound like a likely problem for many!

 

[ALFAitalia]

Most people only charge once a week or so.... so even a three car house will probably have an unused charge point for 3 or 4 day's a week.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I don't know anything about the requirements to fit EV chargers, but I do know that in London all new home must have at least one parking bay per flat, for the last 30 years at least.

No, Sir. There's no requirement for new builds in London to have at least one parking bay per flat.

Check out any high rise new apartment block in the congestion zone: not a chance.

The cost would be too high, and the demand isn't there. Especially in the middle of town, people have learned to live without car ownership. Even for poor people, for whom their London flat is their only home.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Most people only charge once a week or so.... so even a three car house will probably have an unused charge point for 3 or 4 day's a week.

With an average EV doing 8,000 miles a year, a three EV household - that doesn't use any other charging -

would find its charger unoccupied for 150 hours of a 168 hour week.

It takes just 6 hours a week to charge an EV at home, using a domestic charger.

 

[markjay]

No, Sir. There's no requirement for new builds in London to have at least one parking bay per flat.

Check out any high rise new apartment block in the congestion zone: not a chance....

Every single new high-rise building that I've seen in London so far had an underground car park. And the developers that I spoke to said it was a requirement. However, this may differ from one local Council to the other.