I can accept they have upgraded the battery and starter but have they fixed the timing chain problems. Whatever the exact wear mode is related to stop start it must put extra stress on the timing chain and it seems to me madness to operate one of the single row chains in stop start when they have enough trouble surviving as it is. The cost of timing chain failure blows any ECO augments into the next century.
Turning off ECO stop start W204 for good
Rf065 said, (I disagree on point number 1, most wear occurs on start up of a COLD engine, not one that has been warmed up before the stop start operates.)
The experts say,
Coating bearings are even being used in some late model production engines. Some OEMs are now using polyamide coated bearings in engines with idle Stop/Start systems as well as some light truck diesel engines. One bearing supplier reported that it will introduce a new aftermarket coated bearing for the Ford 6.7L Powerstroke diesel in early 2016. Other applications will likely follow.
As for the Start/Stop applications, shutting the engine off when a vehicle stops moving and remains motionless for more than a few seconds improves the vehicle’s overall fuel economy, especially in city stop-and-go driving. But it also means the bearings in these engines experience more cranking cycles and an increased risk of metal-to-metal contact between the bearings and crank. Lubrication is minimal until the rotation of the crankshaft forms a hydrodynamic oil wedge between the bearings and crank journals. uncoated bearings typically show severe wear after 100,000 start cycles, whereas coated bearings that are designed for 250,000 to 300,000 starts show almost no measurable wear.
AsI said I want the advantage of these upgraded parts.
Engine Bearings Under Pressure - Engine Builder Magazine
The experts say,
Coating bearings are even being used in some late model production engines. Some OEMs are now using polyamide coated bearings in engines with idle Stop/Start systems as well as some light truck diesel engines. One bearing supplier reported that it will introduce a new aftermarket coated bearing for the Ford 6.7L Powerstroke diesel in early 2016. Other applications will likely follow.
As for the Start/Stop applications, shutting the engine off when a vehicle stops moving and remains motionless for more than a few seconds improves the vehicle’s overall fuel economy, especially in city stop-and-go driving. But it also means the bearings in these engines experience more cranking cycles and an increased risk of metal-to-metal contact between the bearings and crank. Lubrication is minimal until the rotation of the crankshaft forms a hydrodynamic oil wedge between the bearings and crank journals. uncoated bearings typically show severe wear after 100,000 start cycles, whereas coated bearings that are designed for 250,000 to 300,000 starts show almost no measurable wear.
AsI said I want the advantage of these upgraded parts.
Engine Bearings Under Pressure - Engine Builder Magazine
Last edited:
rorf
Active Member
I am a petrol head - I hate this feature with a passion and it is environmentally noisy:fail
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2013
- Messages
- 1,962
- Location
- North West of London
- Car
- Not driving currently - medical
My C220 was a manual, and I enjoyed the stop start, as keeping left foot on the clutch stopped it stopping (!) so I had complete control.
But I had an auto as a courtesy car for a few days, and wished that the feature could have been disabled totally, as not only was it inconvenient, once or twice it was nothing short of dangerous.
My hybrid Lexus (ECVT auto) also has it by default, but it's no problem, in fact it's unnoticeable, as most of the time when the engine would stop, it's only the lecky motor running anyway, and this has instant torque.
I know I've not answered the original question, but maybe the comparisons might interest someone!
But I had an auto as a courtesy car for a few days, and wished that the feature could have been disabled totally, as not only was it inconvenient, once or twice it was nothing short of dangerous.
My hybrid Lexus (ECVT auto) also has it by default, but it's no problem, in fact it's unnoticeable, as most of the time when the engine would stop, it's only the lecky motor running anyway, and this has instant torque.
I know I've not answered the original question, but maybe the comparisons might interest someone!
Yugguy
MB Enthusiast
The missus manual Yaris has stop start, the car has to be warmed up for it to be active. It can be disabled with a button, per journey. Car must be in neutral with clutch realised to stop.
I'm not at all convinced of the environmental benefits, I think it just makes it easier for manufacturers to make even more unrealistic mpg claims.
I'm not at all convinced of the environmental benefits, I think it just makes it easier for manufacturers to make even more unrealistic mpg claims.
Last edited:
If you have a disable switch can you not do something as crude as joining the wires behind the switch so it is permanently switched?
NO, If you push switch in then start car it still defaults to ON, my old mini had stop/start, I just super glued the switch down, stop/start never came on again.
NO, If you push switch in then start car it still defaults to ON, my old mini had stop/start, I just super glued the switch down, stop/start never came on again.
D
Deleted member 6183
Guest
Is it such a problem to switch off every time you get in the car? Maybe the same drivers who find it hard to use indicators
Or, maybe, just use it?
You can switch it off, the problem is you do forget at times, when that happens and you are at a junction and need to get into the main road quickly you get a very nasty surprise, the car appears to falter, do you slam all on or boot it, you have no idea at that moment in time whether the car will stall or not. this has happened to me and it`s very unnerving.
If you drive with the idiot button on all the time you won`t notice this faltering but you will notice the cost of repairs caused by this contraption.
If you drive with the idiot button on all the time you won`t notice this faltering but you will notice the cost of repairs caused by this contraption.
D
Deleted member 6183
Guest
Without wishing to start an argument, has the additional repair cost been proven?
It's a fairly new innovation and, if there are no signs of trouble yet, there is unlikely to be a major issue for owners of newer cars which feature this particular device.
geraldrobins
MB Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2013
- Messages
- 1,473
- Car
- VW Golf, past c200cdi
Leweboy,
Without wishing to start an argument, has the additional repair cost been proven?
Have you read all the posts, Just look at ONE item. the timing chain, the highest stress on the timing chain is at startup, obvious really, once the engine is rotating there is little stress on the chain just normal rotational wear. The more starts the more wear, not rocket science.
Without wishing to start an argument, has the additional repair cost been proven?
Have you read all the posts, Just look at ONE item. the timing chain, the highest stress on the timing chain is at startup, obvious really, once the engine is rotating there is little stress on the chain just normal rotational wear. The more starts the more wear, not rocket science.
geraldrobins
MB Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2013
- Messages
- 1,473
- Car
- VW Golf, past c200cdi
Not sure I agree. surely the engine is under minimal load when starting, compared to pulling up an incline for instance.
Don`t take my word for it just google.
Stop-start ? the long-term impact on your car?s engine | Autocar
So if there is a new bearing material then why waste the gain by using stop/start, deactivate the device and your car will probable last years longer saving probably thousands in repairs over those years. The timing chain will also last longer without stop/start.
Stop-start ? the long-term impact on your car?s engine | Autocar
So if there is a new bearing material then why waste the gain by using stop/start, deactivate the device and your car will probable last years longer saving probably thousands in repairs over those years. The timing chain will also last longer without stop/start.
D
Deleted member 6183
Guest
Or we could always go back to the horse and cart.
geraldrobins
MB Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2013
- Messages
- 1,473
- Car
- VW Golf, past c200cdi
I didn't think the Autocar post was that convincing. However stop start will increase wear as will a lot of other energy saving devices such as lighter components, plastic sumps, plastic water pumps etc, but will they last as long.
But there is an Eco switch to turn off if you don't want to use stop start.
I will continue to use my stop start.
But there is an Eco switch to turn off if you don't want to use stop start.
I will continue to use my stop start.
D
Deleted member 65149
Guest
I can understand the concerns expressed about extra wear caused by the stop/start, but MB say that everything is strengthened to compensate so will it be a problem in real life. It may be noticeable after a few hundred thousand miles, but let's face it everything will be suffering by then.
What I don't understand is the claims of "several seconds" to start the engine when under start/stop conditions. My C350 petrol starts in less than a second so is barely noticeable. If a fraction of a second is going to compromise my safe exit from a junction I can assure you that I won't want to go. So, is it perhaps only lower powered models that give rise to a noticeable delay? If so, I have to agree with the other posters who have suggested burning lots of extra calories by extending your left arm and pressing the Eco button at the start of each journey.
What I don't understand is the claims of "several seconds" to start the engine when under start/stop conditions. My C350 petrol starts in less than a second so is barely noticeable. If a fraction of a second is going to compromise my safe exit from a junction I can assure you that I won't want to go. So, is it perhaps only lower powered models that give rise to a noticeable delay? If so, I have to agree with the other posters who have suggested burning lots of extra calories by extending your left arm and pressing the Eco button at the start of each journey.
