Well, that was Ludicrous!

[markjay]

I find that all EVs look heavy ,in a bloated way.

What I do find annoying is that most new cars look like each other... and yes they do look bloated. Very few car manufacturers dare to break the mould these days and try new and bold designs.

Also, Tesla's: if you take a Model 3 and pump it up, you get a Model Y. If you take a Model Y and pump it up, you get a Model X...

Hyundai were daring with the IONIQ 5 (which I do like), granted, and also with the (rather unappealing to me personally I have to say) IONIQ 7, but all their other cars, including the Genesis range, and also the cars made by their sister company Kia, look like a 'safe' design.

 

[markjay]

How often do cyclists ring their bell at you, Sir ?

Any other symptoms of tinnitus ?

Once again, every chav on on bus, bicycle or scooter, is one less beggar in a motor blocking the road.

Not if they're under driving age

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Not if they're under driving age

Scooters and bikes are very much part of our local school run ethos. With Dad or Mum when little, and on their own past year six or seven.

And “driving age” car ownership has been taxed out of reach of most adults under 21.

Under St Margaret half of all 21 year olds had a driving licence. Thirty five years on it’s less than a quarter.

Once into their 20’s, the number of adults owning a car is dramatically down as well. They say we’re “beyond peak car.”

 

[Bellow]

Once again, every chav on on bus, bicycle or scooter, is one less beggar in a motor blocking the road.

Yeah, those buses and bicycles never hold up traffic.

 

[markjay]

Yeah, those buses and bicycles never hold up traffic.

I reckon that the breakeven point for a bus is when there are at least 3 passengers onboard who would have otherwise driven their private cars.

 

[GrahamT]

Every cyclist or e-scooter on the road is another vehicle not being driven.
Yes, cyclists don't make engine noises, but that doesn't make bikes dangerous.
If a cyclist doesn't look around, and only depends on her ears before changing direction, it's her that's at fault.

I doubt that Plod would see it that way.

 

[Bellow]

I reckon that the breakeven point for a bus is when there are at least 3 passengers onboard who would have otherwise driven their private cars.

Spectacularly vague MJ. Are you talking city driving or A-roads - where three additional cars in a continuously moving traffic stream would be significantly less disruptive than a bus stopping six times and the dozen vehicles stuck behind it accelerating back to 60 mph cruise speed?

 

[markjay]

Spectacularly vague MJ. Are you talking city driving or A-roads - where three additional cars in a continuously moving traffic stream would be significantly less disruptive than a bus stopping six times and the dozen vehicles stuck behind it accelerating back to 60 mph cruise speed?

Fine. Let's say 3 to 6 passengers, depending on the road? Or even 10 passengers , in a worst-case scenario?

Some roads have bays for busses, BTW.

 

[Bellow]

Fine. Let's say 3 to 6 passengers, depending on the road? Or even 10 passengers , in a worst-case scenario?

The number has changed - but not elucidation of the setting..

Some roads have bays for busses, BTW.

Been north of Edinburgh? Up here, the bus stop is where the passenger says it is - boarding and alighting.

 

[PXW]

I noticed that in this country sounding the car's horn is generally perceived as impolite... compared to some other European countries, anyway.

Perhaps cars should be equipped with some sort of chime to be used solely for the purpose of preemptively alerting pedestrians and cyclists to your presence, to be distinguished from the horn that may come across as a rude "get out of my way" .

Before the rules changed to require low speed sound emitters on EVs, they were truly silent at walking pace - I’ve had plenty of instances of driving behind pedestrians in car parks who simply don’t realise I am there. But much over that and tyre noise means that other road users are alerted well enough. A few Tesla Model 3 owners invested in a remote door chime to put in the frunk - just press the “doorbell” for a gentle ding-dong alert

 

[PXW]

Hi , do they stop as quickly as they accelerate ?

Others have provided the maths, but my own real life experience was when a friendly patrolman pulled me over on the M6 (hadn’t done anything awful, but someone had relieved me of my front number plate and I hadn’t noticed - I passed the police patrol while it was on the hard shoulder and he did notice). So, he came up behind me and put his lights on - I indicated, pulled over and just lifted off (regen only). As he came up to me, his first comment was “My God, these Teslas have got good brakes, haven’t they!”. Didn’t like to say I hadn’t even touched the brakes….

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Others have provided the maths, but my own real life experience was when a friendly patrolman pulled me over on the M6 (hadn’t done anything awful, but someone had relieved me of my front number plate and I hadn’t noticed - I passed the police patrol while it was on the hard shoulder and he did notice). So, he came up behind me and put his lights on - I indicated, pulled over and just lifted off (regen only). As he came up to me, his first comment was “My God, these Teslas have got good brakes, haven’t they!”. Didn’t like to say I hadn’t even touched the brakes….

Amen, I've done my own "controlled experiments" on (someone else's 3) and the braking is phenomenal

Irrelevant, really, as is the acceleration, because you never need that much power, but "very interesting."

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

And “driving age” car ownership has been taxed out of reach of most adults under 21.

Under St Margaret half of all 21 year olds had a driving licence. Thirty five years on it’s less than a quarter.

I’m not sure that the cost of car ownership accounts for much of that reduction. Younger people just seem less interested in cars and driving than previous generations.

Before the rules changed to require low speed sound emitters on EVs, they were truly silent at walking pace - I’ve had plenty of instances of driving behind pedestrians in car parks who simply don’t realise I am there. But much over that and tyre noise means that other road users are alerted well enough. A few Tesla Model 3 owners invested in a remote door chime to put in the frunk - just press the “doorbell” for a gentle ding-dong alert

Although to be fair that may not just be an EV thing, I occasionally get that driving some relatively noisy ICE cars. Some people are just oblivious to their surroundings!

 

[Steveml63]

Hi,
Couple of things:-
Both our EVs emit a special noise up to about 20km/h to help pedestrians hear you approach them.
However - it is still frighteningly easy to creep up on people in car parks and at pedestrian crossings!
Regarding acceleration & braking times.
Twice now I have been accelerating hard towards some traffic lights in the distance - as I approach the lights I brake hard, nearly to a stop and then the lights turn green (here they go straight from red to green - no red/amber first)
I then immediately floored the accelerator and on both occasions nearly fainted!
The combination of hard acceleration followed by hard braking followed immediately by hard acceleration again really messes with your ear balance and blood flow!!!
I cannot imagine what it must be like in a Tesla Model S Plaid - which is nearly a second to 60mph quicker than our Tesla Model 3.
Cheers
Steve

 

[Tonygw]

I have an issue with EV's around schools.


I have witnessed so many near misses at both schools that my kids go to where EVs almost silently drive along or pull out with no apparent waring to pedestrians, as both kids and parents step into the road. Yes they should be looking but busy drop off times, parents and kids simply don't always look.

To the point now where the nick name for EVs around the school's is the "Kid Killers Cars"

The special noise they emit is drowned out by the background noise of kids and parents and most are subconsciously listening for engines and not the noises emitted from EV's.

Sadly, our governments no longer give us the road safety message of "STOP LOOK, LISTEN" so nobody does, but even if they did they wouldn't hear the EV approaching.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I have an issue with EV's around schools.

I have witnessed so many near misses at both schools that my kids go to where EVs almost silently drive along or pull out with no apparent waring to pedestrians, as both kids and parents step into the road. Yes they should be looking but busy drop off times, parents and kids simply don't always look.
To the point now where the nick name for EVs around the school's is the "Kid Killers Cars"
The special noise they emit is drowned out by the background noise of kids and parents and most are subconsciously listening for engines and not the noises emitted from EV's.
Sadly, our governments no longer give us the road safety message of "STOP LOOK, LISTEN" so nobody does, but even if they did they wouldn't hear the EV approaching.

Presumably you mean both Hybrids and EV's, because far more hybrids than BEV's will be wafting on battery near schools.

Understand the nickname, but there are no stats "wafting" around - in any Western Country - to suggest that BEV's are running over people any more than ICE. If there were, the regulators would be all over it.

Their brakes are so powerful, someone could make the case that BEVs are safer because the brake circuitry is so strong.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I have an issue with EV's around schools.


I have witnessed so many near misses at both schools that my kids go to where EVs almost silently drive along or pull out with no apparent waring to pedestrians, as both kids and parents step into the road. Yes they should be looking but busy drop off times, parents and kids simply don't always look.

To the point now where the nick name for EVs around the school's is the "Kid Killers Cars"

The special noise they emit is drowned out by the background noise of kids and parents and most are subconsciously listening for engines and not the noises emitted from EV's.

Sadly, our governments no longer give us the road safety message of "STOP LOOK, LISTEN" so nobody does, but even if they did they wouldn't hear the EV approaching.

I have no doubt that EVs can be more difficult to hear in some circumstances however if a parent or child is too distracted to notice an EV then I would argue that they’re also too distracted to notice an ICE too.

Regardless of fuel type, at low speeds they’re all relatively quiet. I drive some ridiculously loud vehicles, but I’m amazed that people still step out in front of me without looking or casually walk ahead of me oblivious to me crawling behind them.

To blame the Government for parents not knowing the importance of Stop, Look and Listen is also a stretch. The natural instinct to protect your children is a far stronger reason for parents to exercise care than any advert on TV.

As for calling EVs “kid killer cars”, sounds like anti-EV scaremongering. If parents step out in front of cars, then that needs to be addressed before pointing the finger at EVs. They’re the same drivers who used to drive ICE. They’d be driving too fast near a school if an ICE makes more noise than EV.

All cars kill children, it’s a very sad reality. Not helped by children, teenagers and young adults having relatively little ability to perceive and assess risk, and ease with which they can be distracted, linked to the development of the frontal lobe.

 

[clk320x]

Presumably you mean both Hybrids and EV's, because far more hybrids than BEV's will be wafting on battery near schools.

Understand the nickname, but there are no stats "wafting" around - in any Western Country - to suggest that BEV's are running over people any more than ICE. If there were, the regulators would be all over it.

Their brakes are so powerful, someone could make the case that BEVs are safer because the brake circuitry is so strong.

You’ll find that the usual suspects who have issues with EVs in general, have an issue with them in regards to every aspect of life.

Good that you mentioned the hybrids - will be interesting to see what the counter argument is to that…

and also… surely having more BEVs being used near schools is a good thing, unless people think those walking around there would be better off inhaling the noxious fumes coming out of idling oil burners?

 

[ALFAitalia]

Most of the noise of a modern car is tyre noise anyway especially at high speed (90% plus of motorway noise is from the tyre/road surface interface)...or very low speed when an ICE is just above idle anyway....I cant see EVs as much more dangerous to pedestrians than ICE cars.
However is lots of reports on braking (see Google!) EVs take LONGER to stop than ICE vehicles not shorter........but only by a few feet. How powerful the brakes are on a modern car is irrelevant as all modern cars have the braking power to easily reach the tyre limits..........what determines how fast they stop is the tyre choice (EVs tend to come with tyres designed for high range rather than high grip!!), rear to front weight transference and the mass of the car.....which is why on average EVs take a little longer to stop.... there is just more to stop! If they were identical apart from having a battery motor then they would stop in the same time.

Why do electric cars have longer braking distances?

A reader is thinking of buying an electric car and wonders why they seem to have lengthy stopping distances

www.whatcar.com

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Good that you mentioned the hybrids - will be interesting to see what the counter argument is to that…

Statistically, hybrids must be important. Our half million hybrids are much more likely to be on the school run than our three quarters of a million BEV's, which tend to be used by the company car crowd.

Yummy mummy / daddy is more likely to be in the relatively more affordable hybrid - at the moment - than the BEV. They're cheaper to buy and more readily available as used.

£3k gets a very nice, reliable silent 18 year old hybrid