Who uses ‘V-Power Diesel’....

[geoffus]

Interesting. Do you regularly do motorway or A-road driving? Does the DPF regenerate frequently? High annual mileage is good for DPFs, it's the short trips that kills them.

My MOT was done this week, I did 3,700 miles this year and 4,600 last year.
Most of my journeys are local short trips, I may go on a motorway run every 2 weeks or so, having now retired the car is used mainly to take me to golf and back.
If we go on holiday or a long trip we use the wife's B200 as we take our 2 dogs.
The last time I connected the ICarsoft and monitored a regen it started within a few miles and relatively low revs on the motorway. I think I was doing around 65 mph, you could not tell it had started, no smoke, no increased revs, temp remained stable. Only indicator was the ICarsoft fill level decreasing. I guess it does small regens al the time and you never know. One day I will fill up with V power fuel to see if it makes it quieter, smoother and cleaner, but not yet !

 

[HB]

When I looked deep and I mean down the rabbit hole , one thing I came to learn is the oil / fuel industry can be very secretive .

100% correct. Anyone else who doesn’t understand this can bark on all day - they won’t allow you to mess with their profits by knowing the real truths behind their operation. A good friend of mine is a high level director at a well known oil giant who make ”V”ery fast fuel for your car. The “speed money” that he talks about to get jobs done especially in the third world is frightening. Thats only the tip of the iceberg.

 

[GeeJayW]

100% correct. Anyone else who doesn’t understand this can bark on all day - they won’t allow you to mess with their profits by knowing the real truths behind their operation. A good friend of mine is a high level director at a well known oil giant who make ”V”ery fast fuel for your car. The “speed money” that he talks about to get jobs done especially in the third world is frightening. Thats only the tip of the iceberg.

Been going on for decades in big business/big government…

Speed money is widely used in international deals

In Assochams view, speed money is essentially plain money which facilitates procurement of business from developing and developed countries through various channels and a number of agenciesgovernmental and non-governmental

www.financialexpress.com

 

[Bellow]

Do performance re-maps still include a 'bit more fuel' to get the turbo spooling (fuel led) and improve throttle response (as improved throttle response will always feel like more power)? A sure fire way to a prematurely blocked DPF.

 

[markjay]

Been going on for decades in big business/big government…

Speed money is widely used in international deals

In Assochams view, speed money is essentially plain money which facilitates procurement of business from developing and developed countries through various channels and a number of agenciesgovernmental and non-governmental

www.financialexpress.com

It was definitely true when I worked in West Africa in the nineties, but not limited to the oil and gas industry. I have no reason to assume it changed since.

 

[markjay]

And do you like chocolate? Talk of 'speed money'... the international market behind the production and distribution of cacao is the material that thrillers are made of.

 

[GeeJayW]

It was definitely true when I worked in West Africa in the nineties, but not limited to the oil and gas industry. I have no reason to assume it changed since.

Sadly, it’s the way things are done in some countries. An ugly way of achieving something, but there it is.

 

[GeeJayW]

Do performance re-maps still include a 'bit more fuel' to get the turbo spooling (fuel led) and improve throttle response (as improved throttle response will always feel like more power)? A sure fire way to a prematurely blocked DPF.

With sequential turbochargers, it may not have so much impact, as the smaller one spools up more quickly anyway. But for sure over-fuelling results in additional soot which ends up in the DPF.

If I recall, part of the brief from Audi when they went diesel at Le Mans, was there be no clouds of black smoke pouring out the back. So pretty sure they had DPFs on the diesel LMP1 cars.

 

[Bellow]

With sequential turbochargers, it may not have so much impact, as the smaller one spools up more quickly anyway. But for sure over-fuelling results in additional soot which ends up in the DPF.

Maybe not so much now but in the early days of diesel re-maps dumping fuel into them was commonplace and resulted in black smoke when going into the throttle before boost was up. Making following some tardarse unable to carry corner speed a real joy....

What isn't being recognised in the talk of 'efficiency' gains by deleting EGR and ramping up boost pressure with a re-map is that while efficiency as before is defined by what comes out of the engine as a result of the fuel burn that isn't only torque and power now but emissions also. No one is achieving anything that the OEM's couldn't. The OEMs took all aspects of efficiency into account - and had to or the vehicles would never have been permitted on the roads.

And anyone who doesn't like extensive EGR use I have a handy tip to share that I use all the time - don't buy a diesel.

If I recall, part of the brief from Audi when they went diesel at Le Mans, was there be no clouds of black smoke pouring out the back. So pretty sure they had DPFs on the diesel LMP1 cars.

Back when truck racing started they were told soon after to cut back on the smoke and they did it by winding back the excess fuelling long before DPFs existed. LMP 1 cars? - there's someone on the forum who could answer that! - but possibly they neither wanted or needed fuel led fuelling. Didn't want it to save fuel and minimise pitstops and didn't need it as their drivers would be skilled enough to bring the throttle in while still (left foot) braking to ensure enough boost for corner exit.
Whatever methods, 'rolling coal' would not have been a good look.

 

[GeeJayW]

Maybe not so much now but in the early days of diesel re-maps dumping fuel into them was commonplace and resulted in black smoke when going into the throttle before boost was up. Making following some tardarse unable to carry corner speed a real joy....

What isn't being recognised in the talk of 'efficiency' gains by deleting EGR and ramping up boost pressure with a re-map is that while efficiency as before is defined by what comes out of the engine as a result of the fuel burn that isn't only torque and power now but emissions also. No one is achieving anything that the OEM's couldn't. The OEMs took all aspects of efficiency into account - and had to or the vehicles would never have been permitted on the roads.

And anyone who doesn't like extensive EGR use I have a handy tip to share that I use all the time - don't buy a diesel.



Back when truck racing started they were told soon after to cut back on the smoke and they did it by winding back the excess fuelling long before DPFs existed. LMP 1 cars? - there's someone on the forum who could answer that! - but possibly they neither wanted or needed fuel led fuelling. Didn't want it to save fuel and minimise pitstops and didn't need it as their drivers would be skilled enough to bring the throttle in while still (left foot) braking to ensure enough boost for corner exit.
Whatever methods, 'rolling coal' would not have been a good look.

Diesels are basically smoke limited in one direction and NOx limited in the other when it comes to tuning.

Electronic control, very high injection pressures and common-Rail or PD systems went a long way to bringing down particlute mass. Oxy Cat gets rid of any wet fraction. DPFs do more to manage down particle number, especially the sub 10 micron particles that we can’t see.

 

[Bellow]

Diesels are basically smoke limited in one direction and NOx limited in the other when it comes to tuning.

Yes - and the OEM engineers decided on the best (finely balanced) compromise after devoting a huge amount of resources to the task.
I will criticise them (or the cost counters) for not making the supporting systems robust enough but that's still no excuse to delete them.

 

[markjay]

Yes - and the OEM engineers decided on the best (finely balanced) compromise after devoting a huge amount of resources to the task.
I will criticise them (or the cost counters) for not making the supporting systems robust enough but that's still no excuse to delete them.

But Diesel tuning for better mpg should in theory reduce emissions - less fuel is burnt per mile driven, no?

 

[Bellow]

But Diesel tuning for better mpg should in theory reduce emissions - less fuel is burnt per mile driven, no?

You can be pretty sure that tuning for best mpg is what the OEM engineers did as they pursued lowest possible CO2 emissions.. They were compelled to work within the emission regs though, particularly in controlling NOx. CO2 figures remember dictate VED and thus a key figure for any prospective buyer.
Not sure less CO2 and more NOx is up your street MJ....

 

[suty455]

For the record Petrols also have EGRs these Days and they will fail in much the same way, my remap produces no smoke other than a small puff on start up and I mean small its not visible in daylight but can be seen in headlights at night, am sure we have all seen the diesels with no smoke no poke and black backsides, thats is poor work its just whacking up the fuel pressure to run it rich all the time, the Engines probably last about 10k with the bores being washed all the time and the oil being thinned and overloaded with soot and ash and becoming acidic.
with an individual map done properly on a rolling road like I have on both my vehicles, the map is custom to my cars and is designed to produce maximum power with little to no change in MPG, of course if I drive like a nutter then yes it will use way more fuel but thats true of it in standard trim anyway, I still get 38mpg on average bear in mind most of my time is spent on the motorway with its associated hold ups, whilst in lockdown we still worked as we are classed as essential workers and it would regularly return 45mpg with no holdups.
My Tesla which lasted a week before it went back cost £2.00 a Day to charge at home and couldnt do the London and back run in one go, so I got a car allowance and bought the E class had it well fettled and am now happy with it.
Ohh and V power is still good fuel!

 

[Bellow]

Diesels are basically smoke limited in one direction and NOx limited in the other when it comes to tuning.

Electronic control, very high injection pressures and common-Rail or PD systems went a long way to bringing down particlute mass. Oxy Cat gets rid of any wet fraction. DPFs do more to manage down particle number, especially the sub 10 micron particles THAT WE CAN'T SEE.

 

[GeeJayW]

For the record Petrols also have EGRs these Days and they will fail in much the same way, my remap produces no smoke other than a small puff on start up and I mean small its not visible in daylight but can be seen in headlights at night, am sure we have all seen the diesels with no smoke no poke and black backsides, thats is poor work its just whacking up the fuel pressure to run it rich all the time, the Engines probably last about 10k with the bores being washed all the time and the oil being thinned and overloaded with soot and ash and becoming acidic.
with an individual map done properly on a rolling road like I have on both my vehicles, the map is custom to my cars and is designed to produce maximum power with little to no change in MPG, of course if I drive like a nutter then yes it will use way more fuel but thats true of it in standard trim anyway, I still get 38mpg on average bear in mind most of my time is spent on the motorway with its associated hold ups, whilst in lockdown we still worked as we are classed as essential workers and it would regularly return 45mpg with no holdups.
My Tesla which lasted a week before it went back cost £2.00 a Day to charge at home and couldnt do the London and back run in one go, so I got a car allowance and bought the E class had it well fettled and am now happy with it.
Ohh and V power is still good fuel!

The reason your mpg is unchanged is because the area of the map used for typical road-load and torque demand (acceleration) operation is unchanged. Plus at normal road load, cars need remarkably little power to drive along, eg at a steady 60mph, a typical car only needs about 15-20hp (12-15kW).

Remapping to use more aggressive settings for areas of the operating envelope where higher load and torque demand are called for increases emissions. This results in much higher emissions during this style of operation. Effectively this is what some of the OEMs may have done under the dieselgate scandal, which has subsequently been highlighted by using a more strenuous drive cycle.

If you think your remapped cars are not making more emissions, think again.

FWIW remapping should be illegal in my opinion, though of course I recognise that it currently isn’t.

Your car, your choice, other people’s lungs.

 

[markjay]

The reason your mpg is unchanged is because the area of the map used for typical road-load and torque demand (acceleration) operation is unchanged. Plus at normal road load, cars need remarkably little power to drive along, eg at a steady 60mph, a typical car only needs about 15-20hp (12-15kW).

Remapping to use more aggressive settings for areas of the operating envelope where higher load and torque demand are called for increases emissions. This results in much higher emissions during this style of operation. Effectively this is what some of the OEMs may have done under the dieselgate scandal, which has subsequently been highlighted by using a more strenuous drive cycle.

If you think your remapped cars are not making more emissions, think again.

FWIW remapping should be illegal in my opinion, though of course I recognise that it currently isn’t.

Your car, your choice, other people’s lungs.

This is a tricky one, because if we say that a car cannot be changed from how it was when it was emissions-tested by the manufacturer (and which can also affect various taxes rates), then this creates an issue if fitting wider tyres, or a roof box, or when towing etc.

My understanding is that at current modifications (including remap) are not illegal if the car still meets the basic MOT emissions test requirements, and regardless of how much it varies from the manufacturer's original emissions testing (and on which some tax rates are based) after the modifications.

 

[GeeJayW]

This is a tricky one, because if we say that a car cannot be changed from how it was when it was emissions-tested by the manufacturer (and which can also affect various taxes rates), then this creates an issue if fitting wider tyres, or a roof box, or when towing etc.

My understanding is that at current modifications (including remap) are not illegal if the car still meets the basic MOT emissions test requirements, and regardless of how much it varies from the manufacturer's original emissions testing (and on which some tax rates are based) after the modifications.

As I said, it’s not currently illegal to remap a car. I think it should be. Not seeing anything tricky in that.

The tax band thing is (in the main) academic and merely a means of extracting more money from owners of more expensive cars.

Fitting wider tyres, a roof box or towing all consume more fuel, so more fuel duty is paid at the pump. In fact in my view, road fund tax should be scrapped and put onto the price of fuel. That way the polluter pays.

 

[markjay]

As I said, it’s not currently illegal to remap a car. I think it should be. Not seeing anything tricky in that.

The tax band thing is (in the main) academic and merely a means of extracting more money from owners of more expensive cars.

Fitting wider tyres, a roof box or towing all consume more fuel, so more fuel duty is paid at the pump. In fact in my view, road fund tax should be scrapped and put onto the price of fuel. That way the polluter pays.

This has been discussed before, it carries the risk of discrimination against rural areas were basic commutes and trips to the shops rack-up the mileage, while the locals are not necessarily well-off.

 

[GeeJayW]

This has been discussed before, it carries the risk of discrimination against rural areas were basic commutes and trips to the shops rack-up the mileage, while the locals are not necessarily well-off.

I agree, but I also think that a ‘polluter pays’ principle is the fairest overall. That it penalises those in rural areas is mainly due to the current infrastructure that has evolved under the the present energy duty model. Maybe it’s time for local yokels to be more valued and better off?