Why buy new diesel cars?

[DRIVER200]

Just to put a different angle on this wondering how many miles a year you would have to do in a diesel powered car in order to save the money the petrol equivalent would have cost you. Normally average sized diesel engine cars are around £2,000 more than their petrol equivalents so assuming around 5,000 more miles per year for probably 3 years or so?

 

[Lennox]

Just to put a different angle on this wondering how many miles a year you would have to do in a diesel powered car in order to save the money the petrol equivalent would have cost you. Normally average sized diesel engine cars are around £2,000 more than their petrol equivalents so assuming around 5,000 more miles per year for probably 3 years or so?

But to put it all into perspective for a whole life cost include the fact that the diesel have a higher residual in general to their petrol counterparts. So that £2k may reduce to £500-1000

 

[Fendttrisix]

Targets which are getting measured on are on a global scale with each country having targets to meet. These roll down to various industries based on the country ones, not based on what is that industries actual problem. So yes, it is all about the wrong targets, but that has been expressed on a number of occasions in this thread which you continue to chose to ignore. This drives the wrong behaviour and taxes on the wrong things. You then get industry doing stupid things in trying to cheat those measures and getting caught which then just makes the merry go round accelerate further with more focus on the wrong targets and people posting threads like this. Now if this thread was about all of the types of emissions and which types of engine should we be avoiding due to those emissions then it would have been a sensible thread. The list for cars / vans would go something along the line of (worst at the top getting better as you go down): Large capacity Petrol engines Diesel engines of any capacity Small capacity (Turbo lean burn) engines Hybrid Petrols Electric Vehicles Hydrogen Powered engines Put the electric above hydrogen as you don't know how the electricity was produced, but if solar it would be better than hydrogen.

Agree

 

[Fendttrisix]

Fire engines, ambulance ,recovery vehicle, police cars all have Diesel engines . Good job as these are saving more life's than killing people with emissions.

 

[Delayed Steve]

Just to put a different angle on this wondering how many miles a year you would have to do in a diesel powered car in order to save the money the petrol equivalent would have cost you. Normally average sized diesel engine cars are around £2,000 more than their petrol equivalents so assuming around 5,000 more miles per year for probably 3 years or so?

Auto Express did a article and they said you had to do fifteen to twenty thousand miles a year to break even on the petrol model ,depending on the car. Certain cars would never break even because petrol models were in greater demand , the two models that stuck in my mind were the Fiat 500 diesel (nobody wants one) and the BMW 3 series where the customers buying secondhand wanted a petrol to go with the sporty image and the market was flooded with diesel.
This argument only matters if you're buying new, if you're looking for a secondhand car you're stuck with what's available and that inevitably means diesel because there's more of them.
I've got no preference between diesel and petrol ,I'm firmly on the fence.

 

[Dryce]

Auto Express did a article and they said you had to do fifteen to twenty thousand miles a year to break even on the petrol model ,depending on the car.

Depends on the car and the deals.

As an example - the mileage becomes irrelevant if you can lease a diesel way cheaper than the petrol equivalent. And then there is the issue of performance or availability of petrol models.

In the last two or three years we've seen both diesels and petrol shift.

- Higher performance 2 litre-ish diesels are now being punted by the manufacturers in place of three litre units.

- Small turbo petrol units are being pushed instead of 1.6 and 2.0 litre petrol units.

- we have a few more hybrids with a focus on performance instead just economy with a small petrol engine boosted by a battery.

Comments were being made o these forums 5 or 6 years ago about manufacturers shifting the development focus back to petrol after having successfully improved diesels.

 

[markjay]

These comparisons tend to assume the customer is buying new and compare mainly fuel, servicing, and depreciation.

What they do not factor-in is the increased financial risk from running a diesel car not covered by warranty.

This is also something most second hand buyers tend to ignore.

 

[Dryce]

This is also something most second hand buyers tend to ignore.

Cars depreciate quite quickly here - even diesels.

So it's not ignored - the risk is incorporated into the pricing.

 

[TheFoX]

Okay, let's have a quick check. All those who have driven a diesel and are now dead, put your hands up, please.

 

[Tim203]

What they do not factor-in is the increased financial risk from running a diesel car not covered by warranty. This is also something most second hand buyers tend to ignore.

What's the increased risk MJ ?

 

[Deleted member 113659]

I think MJ means the increased cost of repairs compared to petrol engined cars.

 

[Yugguy]

It's not just the numbers. I only do 9k a year but having been a baby-killing diesel driver for years I now prefer the way it delivers. Anything above 3k rpm seems too high to me now.

That said I would have a decent hybrid as the delivery is similar.

 

[markjay]

What's the increased risk MJ ?

I think MJ means the increased cost of repairs compared to petrol engined cars.

Correct.

 

[foxy52]

Super thread this one .. really got owners hackles up ?!! dunno why ?!...its only comment,opinion and observation though I think some have strayed from the original comment made .. so to sum up.. if u own a D car from new.. pointless extra waste of money if u hardly use the vehicle ?..Derv costs and extra costs to purchase price when new...... though better fuel economy no doubt of that .. it will take years to recoup the extra costs if possible at all given it will be sold on ?!.........so to the petrol option ?!..cheaper to fuel .. cheaper to buy ..less pollution..zippier to drive turbo or not... spose that's why MB developed charged gaz injection..??! clever idea at the time if somewhat overshadowed by the must buy a D campaigns... I think things would be a bit different now though with all the bad press of emissions.. footnote... there are still more petrol cars on our roads.. I think there always will be ??!.. just my six penneth.... foxy52

 

[ShinyF1]

Anything above 3k rpm seems too high to me now

First thing I noticed about the way I drove my wife's Mini - i have now learned to enjoy the rasp ABOVE 3,000rpm

 

[ftb]

It's not just the numbers. I only do 9k a year but having been a baby-killing diesel driver for years I now prefer the way it delivers. Anything above 3k rpm seems too high to me now.

That said I would have a decent hybrid as the delivery is similar.

Things have moved on with petrol cars as well. More powerful than ever engines and high gearing gearboxes take care of that. Not advocating for a 'switch' - I enjoy the power delivery of my 220cdi but by all means, check the modern petrols out, you will be impressed.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Super thread this one .. really got owners hackles up ?!! dunno why ?!...its only comment,opinion and observation though I think some have strayed from the original comment made .. so to sum up.. if u own a D car from new.. pointless extra waste of money if u hardly use the vehicle ?..Derv costs and extra costs to purchase price when new...... though better fuel economy no doubt of that .. it will take years to recoup the extra costs if possible at all given it will be sold on ?!.........so to the petrol option ?!..cheaper to fuel .. cheaper to buy ..less pollution..zippier to drive turbo or not... spose that's why MB developed charged gaz injection..??! clever idea at the time if somewhat overshadowed by the must buy a D campaigns... I think things would be a bit different now though with all the bad press of emissions.. footnote... there are still more petrol cars on our roads.. I think there always will be ??!.. just my six penneth.... foxy52

Better than a stream of unconsciousness I suppose.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Okay, let's have a quick check. All those who have driven a diesel and are now dead, put your hands up, please.

Therein lies another issue with diesels. Owners are clearly delighted with their choices - because they don't have to stand outside them when they're driving. It's not the driver who has to breath in the high levels of particulate matter belching out of the back, it's the poor kids in pushchairs by the side of the road.

Also it's those who are outside who have to put up with the extra noise from diesels. Of course owners will say that their diesels are quiet, one even said in this very thread that diesels are quieter than petrol! But all that's happened in reality is that they've become immune to the rattles, they no longer hear them. So again it's the pedestrians in urban environments who suffer.

No doubt some will now say "diesels are much quieter now, you're talking about older cars". Well I've been in a few new diesels in the last four years when being driven to and from my dealership for services to my car. Without exception they were noisy. I once made the mistake of driving one of their cars myself- a new B180 cdi. God it was awful. Noisy, rough, totally unrefined. But not real a fair comparison with my C-class I'll admit. Then earlier this year I had a brand new Audi A4 2 litre diesel as a hire car in Spain (instead of the petrol 3-series BMW I'd ordered grrr). Better than the B-class but still not for me. It was rattly at tick over and low speed, a rattle that could be heard when the windows were open and felt through the throttle pedal. It was nice and quiet once up to a 60/70 kph though. (What a boring car it was however, but that's another story comparing Mercedes with Audi.) So as I said, I can only assume diesel lovers become insensitive to the characteristics that I don't like. It's probably wrong of me to say they don't care, it's more that they don't know.

 

[ftb]

Are you sensitive to noise? All cars make noise. The faster they go, the less noise is coming from the actual engine. If you stood above the motorway once, you could hear lots of noise but it's all friction - tyres, wind. Not the engine.

Besides, V6 as smooth as it can be, will never be as smooth as say 600 V12. Those owners can probably say the same about your noisy V6 when it's next to their V12. You ever thought of that?

 

[HB]

Therein lies another issue with diesels. Owners are clearly delighted with their choices - because they don't have to stand outside them when they're driving. It's not the driver who has to breath in the high levels of particulate matter belching out of the back, it's the poor kids in pushchairs by the side of the road.

Also it's those who are outside who have to put up with the extra noise from diesels. Of course owners will say that their diesels are quiet, one even said in this very thread that diesels are quieter than petrol! But all that's happened in reality is that they've become immune to the rattles, they no longer hear them. So again it's the pedestrians in urban environments who suffer.

No doubt some will now say "diesels are much quieter now, you're talking about older cars". Well I've been in a few new diesels in the last four years when being driven to and from my dealership for services to my car. Without exception they were noisy. I once made the mistake of driving one of their cars myself- a new B180 cdi. God it was awful. Noisy, rough, totally unrefined. But not real a fair comparison with my C-class I'll admit. Then earlier this year I had a brand new Audi A4 2 litre diesel as a hire car in Spain (instead of the petrol 3-series BMW I'd ordered grrr). Better than the B-class but still not for me. It was rattly at tick over and low speed, a rattle that could be heard when the windows were open and felt through the throttle pedal. It was nice and quiet once up to a 60/70 kph though. (What a boring car it was however, but that's another story comparing Mercedes with Audi.) So as I said, I can only assume diesel lovers become insensitive to the characteristics that I don't like. It's probably wrong of me to say they don't care, it's more that they don't know.

You're ever so boring now, seriously, give it a rest now.