Why buy new diesel cars?

[Lennox]

As you can see from the chart below, the emission levels in Euro6 for diesels and petrol cars are comparable.

Would love to see what these actually look like in real life when cars are properly driven and especially where cars are mapped.

In terms of horses, a standard 350 Cdi won't be far behind yours , a remapped one would blow your doors off. Ours is running 310 Bhp with 550ft lbs of torque.



Again in terms of pollution, it's what serves the government pocket best at the time.

That's where for me diesel wins, effortless power. Back in 2008 before I bought my first 535d I test drove M5 tourings, RS6 avant and an E63 estate and the 535d was way quicker!

No I hear you cry, well my wife complains when I'm hammering it. My old MG ZTT (owned in 2004) was a wonderful thing but if I floored it SWMBO told me to slow down. [emoji85]

Same in all the petrol cars I test drove but the 535d (used approved and already mapped by DMS to 370bhp) I could floor it and she didn't complain, well too much.

Same yesterday, whilst ensuring we made the ferry I left a drug dealer behind in his black on black on black TDV8 FFRR Overfinch for dead on the A71 to A78 onramp. I'm 4 up with a roofbox, the wife's Black Friday tirade didn't miss a beat, peppa pigs brother still didn't have his dinosaur. All while daddy pretends he's Jason Statham.

So internally Defcon 5, externally Defcon 1 but with fast paddle management miles munched and drug dealers whooped all in sublime serenity!!

 

[Deleted member 65149]

I should have known this would turn into "my **** is bigger than yours". It's laughable that someone says "In terms of horses, a standard C350 Cdi won't be far behind yours ... our [remapped one] is running at 310 Bhp ..." FYI my standard C350 petrol produces 306 bhp compared to the standard C350 cdi's 265. So 265 isn't far behind 306, but 310 is way ahead of 306! Sniffing too many exhaust fumes? Then we get the weird claims of a BMW 535d being faster than big AMGs but his wife doesn't notice the torpedo performance! I couldn't work that one out.

What both these contributors, and many others, forget is that it's not only diesels that can be breathed on. What they also forget is that all performance enhancements come at a cost, mostly to emissions. But they've already made it clear that they don't care. So they try to deflect attention from their selfish intentions by unzipping their flies and getting out all 5 hard inches. Oh dear.

I wanted to know whether allegedly killer emissions were factored into the decisions of those who bought new diesels. The main answer from those here has clearly been "No". It merely confirmed my thoughts - no more and no less. I also make choices in life from time to time that may impact negatively on others. It's something we all do. I don't blame anyone else for doing so. We all make mistakes.

 

[HB]

I should have known this would turn into "my **** is bigger than yours". It's laughable that someone says "In terms of horses, a standard C350 Cdi won't be far behind yours ... our [remapped one] is running at 310 Bhp ..." FYI my standard C350 petrol produces 306 bhp compared to the standard C350 cdi's 265. So 265 isn't far behind 306, but 310 is way ahead of 306! Sniffing too many exhaust fumes? Then we get the weird claims of a BMW 535d being faster than big AMGs but his wife doesn't notice the torpedo performance! I couldn't work that one out.

What both these contributors, and many others, forget is that it's not only diesels that can be breathed on. What they also forget is that all performance enhancements come at a cost, mostly to emissions. But they've already made it clear that they don't care. So they try to deflect attention from their selfish intentions by unzipping their flies and getting out all 5 hard inches. Oh dear.

I wanted to know whether allegedly killer emissions were factored into the decisions of those who bought new diesels. The main answer from those here has clearly been "No". It merely confirmed my thoughts - no more and no less. I also make choices in life from time to time that may impact negatively on others. It's something we all do. I don't blame anyone else for doing so. We all make mistakes.

No.

You spend your entire time on this forum slating Diesel cars. Who cares if you have such a rare petrol 350. Loads of members could buy one but as you say, they choose to buy a diesel.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

I should have known this would turn into "my **** is bigger than yours". It's laughable that someone says "In terms of horses, a standard C350 Cdi won't be far behind yours ... our [remapped one] is running at 310 Bhp ..." FYI my standard C350 petrol produces 306 bhp compared to the standard C350 cdi's 265. So 265 isn't far behind 306, but 310 is way ahead of 306! Sniffing too many exhaust fumes? Then we get the weird claims of a BMW 535d being faster than big AMGs but his wife doesn't notice the torpedo performance! I couldn't work that one out.

What both these contributors, and many others, forget is that it's not only diesels that can be breathed on. What they also forget is that all performance enhancements come at a cost, mostly to emissions. But they've already made it clear that they don't care. So they try to deflect attention from their selfish intentions by unzipping their flies and getting out all 5 hard inches. Oh dear.

I wanted to know whether allegedly killer emissions were factored into the decisions of those who bought new diesels. The main answer from those here has clearly been "No". It merely confirmed my thoughts - no more and no less. I also make choices in life from time to time that may impact negatively on others. It's something we all do. I don't blame anyone else for doing so. We all make mistakes.

Christ another one!

What is it with this forum's elder statesmen and complete over reactions?

 

[Lennox]

No.

You spend your entire time on this forum slating Diesel cars. Who cares if you have such a rare petrol 350. Loads of members could buy one but as you say, they choose to buy a diesel.

[emoji1303]

My god this man a blooming diesel troll!!!!

I though he was just having a laugh but he's on a personal vendetta.

 

[400ixl]

I blame the Daily Mail

 

[Delayed Steve]

People buy diesel cars because since the early eighties they were told they were the saviour of the planet, butter would kill you and if you take up jogging you'll live to be one hundred.
Fast ward to today, diesel kills people and if you drive one you're in league wth the devil, butters good for you and jogging will wreck your knees!
Is it any wonder no one believes anything we read anymore ?
I've had diesel and now drive petrol, I've had dpf problems in the past,people don't read about things that don't interest them so when the salesman recommends a diesel they believe him!

 

[foxy52]

I know this has been discussed within many other threads, but I still fail to understand why people continue to buy new diesel powered cars. I'm not really interested in whether or not they cost less to run (debatable) or provide greater torque (not something that most drivers will appreciate). My worries are over the now much publicised health concerns.

I can perhaps understand why reading something like this "A Mercedes Benz CLA (2.1l) diesel emitted 8-12 times the limit on the road" (https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ew-diesel-cars-far-higher-than-official-limit) has little influence on buyers' decisions. For most I suspect the reaction is "So what?". But why oh why do people ignore the often repeated headline:

"Diesel pollution blamed for 12,000 early deaths a year" (Diesel pollution blamed for 12,000 early deaths a year | News | The Times & The Sunday Times)

"Almost 12,000 people a year die prematurely in Britain because of exposure to nitrogen dioxide (NO2), which is largely produced by diesel engines, the European Environment Agency (EEA) said."

Don't the people who buy new cars ever take notice of these warnings? Or is it just that they don't care about anyone else? Don't they realise that they're also putting the lives of their loved ones at risk? Or is it simply that they don't think about such things, preferring instead to concentrate solely on their own pockets?

I've heard all the excuses such as "The CO2 levels are lower in diesels so fit within my company car limits", or "The manufacturers don't provide enough choice of petrol cars", or "People die from drinking, smoking and all sorts of other things". To me, they all sound like shrugging shoulders - "Not my problem"

So is that it? People just don't care!

....I for one agree 100% with yr comments.. I have never owned a D car in 40 plus years of driving.. even more of an issue is the con of all cons when Derv was so much cheaper to put in yr tank... do we wonder why its now so expensive ??... its a fact when I drive long distances in the summer months if I am ever in heavy traffic u can smell the stuff on yr clothes...!! it always makes me cough...u can even taste it... no debate u get more M P G but weigh against that the costs of a D car when new.... ?! foxy52...

 

[MercedesDriver]

Omg

 

[DRIVER200]

You only have to drive in France to see how much cheaper Diesel is to Petrol but the reason is that the French Government don't want to upset commercial drivers because they will bring the whole country to a stand still!!

 

[400ixl]

The reason that Diesel jumped from being cheaper than petrol to more expensive a number of years ago in the UK was due to the change in rules that meant it had to be refined differently which was a more expensive process.

Other countries tax it differently to artificially keep it lower.

 

[markjay]

The reason that Diesel jumped from being cheaper than petrol to more expensive a number of years ago in the UK was due to the change in rules that meant it had to be refined differently which was a more expensive process.

Other countries tax it differently to artificially keep it lower.

Not quite.... Diesel engines were always more expensive to produce than petrol engines, something I remember goes 40 years back.

The addition of turbochargers in the late nineties, direct rail injection, DPF, and other complicated systems to maximise output and improve MPG and emissions meant that prices of Diesel engines went up considerably compared to what they were.

What mitigated the increase in the cost of components to some extend was the desirability factor due to reduced taxation which increased demand and allowed manufactures to better absorb the high costs of Diesel engines R&D.

Not sure if anyone here has access to this info, but it would be interesting to compare Mercedes-Benz list price for a short 4-pot diesel and a short 4-pot petrol.... then consider the costs of the Diesel engine ancillaries e.g. fuel pump, complex intake manifold, turbocharger, direct rail injection, etc etc.

 

[markjay]

Just remembered that back in 1995 at work we had an Escort estate 1.8L Diesel (naturally aspirated) that suffered timing belt failure.

The garage told us that the cost of fitting a new 1.8L Diesel engine was prohibitively and would render the car 'beyond economic repair'.

He said that converting the car to 1.6L petrol would be far cheaper - in spite of the fact that it meant replacing the fuel tank, fuel pump, and fuel pipes.

And this is what we did....

PS - from memory 1995 is well before Diesel tax exemption came into play - cars were generally taxed by engine displacement.

 

[DRIVER200]

I looked at the new BMW X5 years ago when it first arrived and then along with other Diesel/Petrol cars in their range there was only £5 difference in price between a 3 litre X5 and a Petrol driven model but since diesel has become more popular for all sorts of reasons the Tax man has got involved and is making a fortune out of it.

 

[400ixl]

Not quite.... Diesel engines were always more expensive to produce than petrol engines, something I remember goes 40 years back.

I was talking about refining the fuel, not producing the engines.

 

[markjay]

I was talking about refining the fuel, not producing the engines.

I see..... sorry

 

[400ixl]

Would be interesting to see a cost comparison of both today as they are both far more complex than 20 years ago. Wouldn't surprise me if they are very similar these days.

 

[MercedesDriver]

The reason that Diesel jumped from being cheaper than petrol to more expensive a number of years ago in the UK was due to the change in rules that meant it had to be refined differently which was a more expensive process. Other countries tax it differently to artificially keep it lower.

I might be wrong but as I remember diesel is a heavier oil fraction hence should be cheaper to produce. I think that the tax is higher on diesel fuel which is reflected on price.

 

[400ixl]

I might be wrong but as I remember diesel is a heavier oil fraction hence should be cheaper to produce. I think that the tax is higher on diesel fuel which is reflected on price.

That was the original position. As soon as they had to start removing the sulphur the process got a lot more expensive.

 

[Benzowner]

Interesting read so far, quite a lot of you have mentioned the effect of diesel fumes on your children, as we say in the west country, makes I laff, has anyone seen the queue of cars waiting outside schools and many of them 4x4's all probably running cold engines that never warm up as they don't go far enough. If it isn't cars it's the local authority buses that when the bidding was done to get the contract resulted in the companies running their oldest diesel vehicles, or taxis, same story.

I would also like to know where the statistic come from, 12000 premature deaths, wonder how many of them smoked?