Bought an R129 unseen - a Cautionary Tale...

[Teflonso]

I go into Tesco.

I see a lovely big joint of prime beef priced at £20. "Perfect" thinks I, "that's Sunday's roast sorted." I proceed to the checkout & discover I have only £12 on me. I give this to the cashier, say I'll be in touch regarding the balance & exit the store. Security guards stop me as I leave.

I'm astounded.

BTW, why 60% deposit?

I go into Tesco. There's a lovely joint of beef for £20. Fair enough, it's so red that a good vet could bring it back to life, but I know what I'm buying and where from. I'm 100% carnivore and ravenously hungry so pay my £20, get my beef and enjoy it when cooked. It's just a bit tough to chew. But I'm happy.

Next day, I see an on-line advert for a second hand joint of meat, being sold by someone I've never met, 200 miles away but it looks like a reasonable deal, even though I can see a few maggoty bits on the photos. I don't bother going to check it out, I buy it unseen. If I'm lucky, I'll get the meat eventually but it might be a bit green round the edges and chances are, I'll get the squits. If I'm even luckier, I won't even get the meat. When I saw the ad, I asked myself "what could possibly go wrong?" and the answer was "nothing".

Quell suprise!

.

 

[BTB 500]

Would I be better to go for an early R230, I wonder?

No. I'm told by people who have had both that the build quality is lower (the R129 is one of the last 'money no object' M-Bs), and reliability is worse. I had planned to 'upgrade' to an R230 but am glad I kept the R129. Had it over 11 years now.

 

[E55BOF]

Thanks, John. One question, though. Why not a bank transfer? My understanding is that once the payment is made, it cannot be recalled; at least, that's what my bank always tells me when I make a payment.

I do have some slight sympathy for the seller's situation too; if I had gone up there and collected the car in July, when the sale was first agreed, and (I'm prepared to believe) it was running fine, none of this would have occurred, and I would have had it for £3222. I'd still have put a new loom on it, and sooner or later distributor caps and rotors, as well. The only unanticipated cost to me would have been the new battery.

I'd have to have the bonnet resprayed as well; it's scratched enough that I don't think I could live with it. The wheels would have to be refurbished too, and I'd have to buy the jacking point covers for it.

As far as what I could get in a 'proper' transaction, there's an Almandine one on eBay at the moment, for £4250 with offers, that looks and sounds OK. I love that colour as well as dark blue, and if the blue one is gone soon, I may well have that. I'm looking to buy now or soon, when prices are low, not wait until next year. I just want one that works...

Thanks, Charles. Yes, a result of sorts; probably best in the long run - after all the hassle, I'd rather just get rid if it now. Unless, of course, this is just another ploy...

More anon.

 

[jonnyboy]

Dennis.

There are two things in your last post that concern me -
The first is you saying you have slight sympathy for the sellers position.
Dont.
He is/was/sort of a trader. Yet acted like a complete ****hole.

The second is that "you're prepared to believe that the car was running fine"
Don't.

I am stunned that you believe anything this complete charlatan has sad. Stunned. Sadly though, I have to say, the fact is that because you have been so trusting/believing/agreed to do things 95% of buyers would never dream of is exactly why you are in this position to start with. Clearly you are a trusting glass half full person. He's taken advantage of that, indeed, I think in most on here's opinion, he's taken the p***, and you've let him. It's all very sad, and I do feel for you.

Who is to say that the "looks and sounds ok" one for £4250 doesnt have stuff that needs doing??? If you can do a devil with the original guy as I mentioned earlier, sometimes it's better the devil you know.....

 

[jonnyboy]

Just looked at it.
Holes in the plastic windows.
nsf wing looks to have been painted and not blended well as colour not matching.
9 previous owners, no mention at all about service history/works done etc etc etc.
Plus probably (imho) the lousiest colour for a 129.

 

[E55BOF]

AND the plot thickens again...

What is on offer is £1000 now, and the rest when the car is returned. Yeah, right. My response?

"Sorry, but I cannot accept that. After the way I’ve been let down, I require a full refund before I do anything at all. I will keep the car as security until I receive payment. As I said before, basically, there’s two choices; you let me get a logbook, then I pay the rest owing, or I get a refund and then hand the car back. I’d rather return the car, but not until I have the refund in full. I would remind you that I have been let down, not you; I have played it dead straight all along, and continue to do so."

I may still be stuck with it...

More anon.

 

[E55BOF]

. Who is to say that the "looks and sounds ok" one for £4250 doesnt have stuff that needs doing???

True, but I wouldn't even go and see that one without asking lots of questions first, and getting satisfactory answers to them. Even then, no money would change hands until I had seen and driven it. That's where I went wrong with the blue one; I'm usually pretty cynical, but there's a reason for that.

You may not like the colour of the Almandine one, but I do.

And why do you advise against accepting bank BACS transfers? (Thinks: If there's a way to reverse them, I paid the deposit by bank transfer...)

 

[BlackC55]

Let me know if I can help. My other business specialises in 129's

I know them pretty well.

 

[E55BOF]

Let me know if I can help. My other business specialises in 129's

I know them pretty well.

Thanks Olly. I'm getting to know more about them than I anticipated at this point...

 

[Smiley]

AND the plot thins again... The seller says he has had the DVLA letter about my application for a registration document, so it looks as though he does have good title to the car, and he wants it back. :bannana::bannana::bannana:

He's offered to refund the deposit (£2000 - now it can be told), plus what I've spent on the car so far - engine loom, distributor caps and rotors, new battery. My response is: OK, put £2730 in my bank account, and come and collect the car. He probably thinks/hopes/expects I'll pay the repatriation costs, and I won't, but I'm willing to pay half as a gesture of goodwill, just to be shot of it. Anybody know how much it costs to have a car taken 200 miles?

You have to ask yourself why he suddenly wants it back just because a letter (saying what exactly?) has arrived with him (or someone else) from the DVLA. And why is he prepared to pay the deposit AND your costs? Because he has something to hide, that's why. Either he does not own it (and the owner has received the letter and now asked him where is my car?) or there is some other discrepancy that the DVLA is chasing down. Just get your money back asap and move on.

 

[E55BOF]

Thanks for that. I gather that when DVLA receives a request for a reg. doc. because none came with the car, they write to the registered keeper to confirm the details; that is what happened a couple of years ago when I sold a bike, and the notification to DVLA must have gone astray. I have applied for a reg. doc, but I have no idea whether the seller received such a letter, or is just trying it on.

I suspect this is just a ploy to try to get me to give the car back in exchange for £1000, and I'm sure that I'd never see another penny if I did so. No chance. I will keep the car as security unless or until I get a full refund. If I DO get that, it will be fine by me, but I think I'm probably stuck with the car. Not the end of the world, but I'd rather return it. I'm waiting to hear more..

 

[tanuie]

No. I'm told by people who have had both that the build quality is lower (the R129 is one of the last 'money no object' M-Bs), and reliability is worse. I had planned to 'upgrade' to an R230 but am glad I kept the R129. Had it over 11 years now.

Hi, i have had both and with the 230 you are just waiting for something to go wrong. (which normaly does). Ok the 230 is a great looking car but i did like the two 129s that i had. I think you made the right decision Bill.

 

[Peter103]

AND the plot thickens again...

What is on offer is £1000 now, and the rest when the car is returned. Yeah, right. My response?

"Sorry, but I cannot accept that. After the way I’ve been let down, I require a full refund before I do anything')


I would tell him to shove his offer up his a--se, and as he now wants the car back he can come and collect it , and bring with him the full amount of cash owed.
Now he wants the car, the boot is on the other foot, you call the shots.

Ps, Be more assertive, you come across as a really nice man, but you're too soft.

 

[bpsorrel]

Can you replace the parts you renewed with the originals? If so, I'd forget about charging for those (keep them for the next car, as back-up parts) and just tell him to repay your deposit in full and collect the car. (if it was me, I'd probably go halves on the transport cost and send it back to him after a bank transfer - but either way you get your money back and he gets "his" car).

BIG lesson here that I'm sure you've learned - NEVER buy unseen and NEVER leave a deposit of more than 10%. Good luck, I feel for you!

 

[E55BOF]

Thanks for the advice on R129 vs R230. I think I'll stick with Plan A (an R129), just preferably not the one I've got...

 

[E55BOF]

....as he now wants the car back he can come and collect it , and bring with him the full amount of cash owed. Now he wants the car, the boot is on the other foot, you call the shots.

Ps, Be more assertive, you come across as a really nice man, but you're too soft.

Precisely so; see post #126.

Too soft? Too honest and fair-minded, perhaps. Softly softly catchee monkey, though... Don't confuse politeness with softness. I prefer to be the smiling knife rather than the nail-studded club, that's all.

 

[trapperjohn]

We like E BOF and his whole thread too.

 

[tanuie]

Good luck with the next one, hopefully there will be one.

 

[cb1965]

Hi, i have had both and with the 230 you are just waiting for something to go wrong. (which normaly does). Ok the 230 is a great looking car but i did like the two 129s that i had. I think you made the right decision Bill.

Nah according to at least one poster on here the R230 issues are mainly scaremongering and some can be fixed for a tenner

 

[slsteve]

Hi E55BOF;
The Almandine SL500 on e-bay is mine, if you would like to know more about it or have any questions please message me through e-bay and I will get back to you with honest and helpful answers.
I would rather not discuss the car on here, as you have seen, some people are already making (wrong) assumptions.
Sorry to hear about all your problems, sounds to me that it was never his car to sell? Maybe ask for some legal advice?

Steve.