Formula 1, Moto GP, WSB, 2021 Season

[MrGreedy]

Only from a LH supporter’s perspective. Over the years LH had many decisions go his way which non LH fanboys would have judged to be unfair on the other driver.

Well, I'm a Max 'fanboy'. He has brought much needed competition to F1, and to repeat my comment in the post you snipped a tiny section from "I've been hoping (waiting) for Max to get a title on the board for a while, but the way this happened yesterday doesn't feel like the "sportman's victory" which he... ...deserves".

So I'm disappointed as a Max fan. As I said, I would have liked to have seen a red flag, then Lewis Vs Max on softs, and judging by lap 1 with no DRS Max would have been in with a good shout of a win on merit, rather than WTAF happened yesterday.

 

[GeeJayW]

Only from a LH supporter’s perspective. Over the years LH had many decisions go his way which non LH fanboys would have judged to be unfair on the other driver.

IMO, LH (although a fantastic driver) has been incredibly fortunate to have (by a good measure) the most dominant car for a long time. It is great to finally see some other manufacturers giving MB a run for their money.

I’m a life long Ferrari supporter so MV or LH.........who cares....

Newey said yesterday that for most of this year (especially early on) the Red Bull was the faster car. It wasn‘t the faster car yesterday, and while it can be argued that Max deserved the title, he did not deserve the race. The race director contrived an ending that he felt gave the most entertainment and in doing so screwed over Lewis and Mercedes. I’m much more of an F1 fan than a fan of a particular driver or team. What happened yesterday was IMHO, not in the best interests of F1.

 

[GeeJayW]

I still don’t understand how Hamilton got away with cutting the corner on the first lap, if it had been anybody else they would have had to give the place back. Max was ahead going into the corner and he managed to stay on track.Hamilton cuts the corner and gets away with gaining an advantage.

LH slowed to allow MV to cat h up?which race were you watching

The stewards see the timings in more detail than we do. Max, was late into Turn 6 And almost came to a stop on the outside of the circuit. Lewis avoided him (not for the first time this season) and ran wide. The time advantage was according to the stewards, handed back. The race position was unchanged. This incident really didn’t define the race. Max wasn’t in contention until the last lap.

 

[Bellow]

If Hamilton had not swerved off track at turn 6 on the first lap, he would be 2021 WDC.

 

[GeeJayW]

If Hamilton had not swerved off track at turn 6 on the first lap, he would be 2021 WDC.

An equally unpalatable end to the season.

As Max stayed on the circuit, I wouldn't have been surprised if the decision would have gone against Lewis anyway. Those in the Max camp would have taken the view that Lewis turned in on Max. Even as someone that didn't want Max' over aggressive driving (especially after Monza and Brazil) to be rewarded and therefore not entirely neutral, I nominally agreed with Martin Brundle's analysis that Lewis had gained from the incident. That is until the stewards said that the time gained had been given back.

Clearly it's a stretch and a bit naughty on my part, but I think the powers that be were desperate this season to have a champion that was not Lewis and, 'shock' 'horror', so it transpired. The end result has raised the level of toxicity to a new high even for F1.

 

[Dryce]

I still don’t understand how Hamilton got away with cutting the corner on the first lap, if it had been anybody else they would have had to give the place back. Max was ahead going into the corner and he managed to stay on track.Hamilton cuts the corner and gets away with gaining an advantage.

The problem is that MV pushed LH off the track - you can see LH doesn't drift off - he turns his steering wheel right to avoid a collision.,

MV has been getting away with this practice for too long. Basically giving other drivers two choices - collide or move out of the way. The only way MV made it round that corner was to take up the same position on the track as LH's car - and LH moved to accommodate MV once MV had committed to this.

The assertion that gravel traps solve the problem seems naive to me (and I know this assertion is being made by experienced drivers - so you might ask why I'm qualified to say they are wrong). The reason in my view is that it puts an on track thug at an advantage - without gravel traps they can be avoided by the opposing driver showing some intelligence and real race craft who then has the opportunity to come back and race again. The rules have been adapted over the last 13 years to handle the principle at least of leaving the circuit and gaining an advantage - and then trading giving the place back to avoid a penalty. So in that sense run off areas keep the race live whereas gravel traps could allow a thug to kill it.

 

[fabes]

"and LH slowed to allow MV to make up the time LH gained in cutting the corner (only done to avoid a collision), so keeping the order before the corner....."

I missed this (was caught up in the moment)
Does the data actually evidence this?

 

[Bellow]

An equally unpalatable end to the season.

But Verstappen would have brought it upon himself - so nothing unfair in the victor's behaviour. Not entirely palatable but more so than what transpired.

As Max stayed on the circuit, I wouldn't have been surprised if the decision would have gone against Lewis anyway. Those in the Max camp would have taken the view that Lewis turned in on Max.

My assumption was based on how the stewards called what did happen but as you say, with a different outcome they may have aclled it differently.

Even as someone that didn't want Max' over aggressive driving (especially after Monza and Brazil) to be rewarded and therefore not entirely neutral, I nominally agreed with Martin Brundle's analysis that Lewis had gained from the incident. That is until the stewards said that the time gained had been given back.

In the moment, if LH had benefitted from MV's aggression then MV brought it upon himself. But LH did give back the gap. The commentators couldn't quite commit to LH being fair - until the last lap debacle that is.

Clearly it's a stretch and a bit naughty on my part, but I think the powers that be were desperate this season to have a champion that was not Lewis and, 'shock' 'horror', so it transpired. The end result has raised the level of toxicity to a new high even for F1.

Truly unpalatable.

 

[Bellow]

The problem is that MV pushed LH off the track - you can see LH doesn't drift off - he turns his steering wheel right to avoid a collision.,

For the third time in three consecutive races....

MV has been getting away with this practice for too long. Basically giving other drivers two choices - collide or move out of the way. The only way MV made it round that corner was to take up the same position on the track as LH's car - and LH moved to accommodate MV once MV had committed to this.

With an added twist. 'Gotcha' screams MV and demands the stewards issue a penalty against the driver forced off track. MV and Horner's defence of 'Max was ahead going into the corner' is risible given it's a late lunge up the inside that sees him barely able to make the corner when he gets there.

 

[Larkone]

Seems there is a movement starting of people cancelling their Sky F1 subs - that will hurt

 

[MrGreedy]

Seems there is a movement starting of people cancelling their Sky F1 subs - that will hurt

Not for the owners of F1 it won't. F1 has many many millions of pay per view subscribers. Hardly any in the UK as a proportion of the total. It will hurt Sky but it's a decimal point rounding error for Liberty Media.

 

[Deleted member 126251]

Well, I'm a Max 'fanboy'. He has brought much needed competition to F1, and to repeat my comment in the post you snipped a tiny section from "I've been hoping (waiting) for Max to get a title on the board for a while, but the way this happened yesterday doesn't feel like the "sportman's victory" which he... ...deserves".

So I'm disappointed as a Max fan. As I said, I would have liked to have seen a red flag, then Lewis Vs Max on softs, and judging by lap 1 with no DRS Max would have been in with a good shout of a win on merit, rather than WTAF happened yesterday.

The tiny bit I snipped was the only section of your comment that I was referring to.

Winners are grinners - I’m sure there are LH wins, about which, people could have the same criticism, I didn’t see LH handing over any trophies.

MV did nothing wrong. It was his turn to have the rub of the green go his way on the day.

I don’t think he really cares how he wins but hopefully he will have many opportunities for a “sportsman’s” victory.

IMO, the days of “sportsmanship" seem to be long gone, most competitors these days are simply hired guns & are only there doing a job for the money!

 

[Deleted member 126251]

Seems there is a movement starting of people cancelling their Sky F1 subs - that will hurt

People only buy tickets when their team is winning.........

 

[Dryce]

Seems there is a movement starting of people cancelling their Sky F1 subs - that will hurt

Well they don't need their subs for another three months or so?

 

[Harrythedog]

Unfortunately there’ll be no winners in this case. FIA are discredited, LH lost the title and the race he led for 571/2 laps and MV will be forever known as the stewards champion

 

[GeeJayW]

The tiny bit I snipped was the only section of your comment that I was referring to.

Winners are grinners - I’m sure there are LH wins, about which, people could have the same criticism, I didn’t see LH handing over any trophies.

MV did nothing wrong. It was his turn to have the rub of the green go his way on the day.

I don’t think he really cares how he wins but hopefully he will have many opportunities for a “sportsman’s” victory.

IMO, the days of “sportsmanship" seem to be long gone, most competitors these days are simply hired guns & are only there doing a job for the money!

It's been said already that Max and RBR did nothing wrong yesterday, beyond whingeing at the Race Director which may have got him to reverse his decision to not allow the lapped cars to pass the safety car. Toto also whinged at the the officials. This seems to be a common way of going about things now. Perhaps inherited from the glowing example that is football.

Lewis also did nothing wrong yesterday, led for 95% of the race and yet lost. In hindsight, perhaps some different decisions from the Mercedes pitwall might have helped at the end, but I don't think they have developed an effective crystal ball yet.

It's also been said that had the roles been reversed, Lewis and Mercedes would have done the same thing as Red Bull. Christian would I think, have literally exploded. His head would have burst!

There's the 'rub of the green' and then there is what at best is downright incompetence and dishonesty from the race director or worse something more sinister. Telling the teams that the lapped cars would not be allowed to pass the safety car, effectively set out the position that the race would finish under the safety car. Changing that decision on lap 57, was pretty much equivalent to torpedoing any chance Lewis had of capitalising on an outstanding drive.

Sure, events happen in races where drivers lose out on the results they deserve. There's no doubt Lewis (and many others) that have benefitted or lost out 'unfairly' in the past and will again in the future. Such events should not include what was effectively sabotage by the race director. That is not his job.

 

[ShaunB]

No decisions will be overturned, what's done is done.
The only decent thing that comes out of this now is that Masi is sacked due to his shenanigans throughout the F1 year

 

[GeeJayW]

No decisions will be overturned, what's done is done.
The only decent thing that comes out of this now is that Masi is sacked due to his shenanigans throughout the F1 year

Apparently (according to something SWMBO saw), Lewis has asked Mercedes to just drop it and move on.

 

[Petrol Pete]

I think if that happens there's a reasonable chance the Red Bull would pull out of F1. De Trick Massive $hits makes all the decisions and he's not the most tollerant person for stuff like this. He's also loaded beyond belief and would likely do it out of spite.

F1 could not afford to lose two teams, one high profile one mid table.

I wonder what the late Charlie Whiting would have done?

......Not Frucked it up like Masi did.

 

[Larkone]

Apparently (according to something SWMBO saw), Lewis has asked Mercedes to just drop it and move on.

The sensible thing for MB to do is push for Masi's resignation and non-variable rules going forward then they are not seen as whinging but actually trying to improve the sport