All a bit ugly if you ask me…
Formula 1, Moto GP, WSB, 2021 Season
- Thread starter AMGeed
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Max voted driver of the day - ffs!
Obviously, the whole race was scripted in advance(!) but in the end, probably a just outcome to a race of complete chaos.
If Max is found to have touched the brakes when Lewis was right behind him then disqualification would be the correct outcome….IMHO…
If Max is found to have touched the brakes when Lewis was right behind him then disqualification would be the correct outcome….IMHO…
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Verstappen has been summoned to the stewards for an alleged breach of Article 2 (d) Chapter IV Appendix L of the FIA International Sporting Code.
....and I understand MV has now been called up to the stewards.....
Verstappen is summoned to the stewards for an alleged breach of Breach of Article 2 (d) Chapter IV Appendix L of the FIA International Sporting Code.
This says: "Causing a collision. Repetition of serious mistakes or the appearance of a lack of control over the car (such as leaving the track) will be reported to the Stewards and may entail the imposition of penalties up to and including the exclusion of any driver concerned."
Verstappen is summoned to the stewards for an alleged breach of Breach of Article 2 (d) Chapter IV Appendix L of the FIA International Sporting Code.
This says: "Causing a collision. Repetition of serious mistakes or the appearance of a lack of control over the car (such as leaving the track) will be reported to the Stewards and may entail the imposition of penalties up to and including the exclusion of any driver concerned."
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Max showing his petulance walking off the podium and not joining in the usual celebrations.
Horner's face at the end was a picture
Horner's face at the end was a picture
Petrol Pete
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If MV smashes Sir LH off the track in the next (last) race he wins the world championship by default of most wins. 
grober
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Reduced a F1 race to the level of some very expensive floodlit Banger racing 
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I wonder if MV et al in the RB team are aware of that?If MV smashes Sir LH off the track in the next (last) race he wins the world championship by default of most wins.
One experienced commentator put it this way:
The nature of Verstappen's conduct will revive debate about whether it is fair for him to drive the way he does, always refusing to back down in wheel-to-wheel incidents, even when other drivers would recognise their rival had won the corner.
I have been impressed that Lewis (and Martin Brundle) have strategically not been dragged into making unsavoury allegations.
The nature of Verstappen's conduct will revive debate about whether it is fair for him to drive the way he does, always refusing to back down in wheel-to-wheel incidents, even when other drivers would recognise their rival had won the corner.
I have been impressed that Lewis (and Martin Brundle) have strategically not been dragged into making unsavoury allegations.
grober
MB Master
BREAKING | Lewis Hamilton to join Max Verstappen in stewards office
It's not just Max Verstappen reporting to the stewards on Sunday evening in Saudi Arabia. Meanwhile, the FIA has also announced that Lewis Hamilton will have to go to the stewards' bench. The seven-time world champion is expected in the stewards' room at the same time as Verstappen.
www.gpblog.com
Lewis Hamilton- Max Verstappen was prepared to crash me out of the championship
Max Verstappen - a big boy done it and ran away
Max was found to have braked and received a 10 sec penalty which seems light to me as it has no practical effect. He's hardly going to learn some sportsmanship without something much more serious in the way of a penalty.
Rubbish circuit in my opinion that is always going to result in a scrappy race.
Max Verstappen handed further 10-second penalty for Lap 37 collision with Lewis Hamilton in Saudi Arabia | Formula 1®
Rubbish circuit in my opinion that is always going to result in a scrappy race.
Max Verstappen handed further 10-second penalty for Lap 37 collision with Lewis Hamilton in Saudi Arabia | Formula 1®
Red C220
MB Enthusiast
In the interest of balance both drivers were summond to the stewards for an alleged breach of Article 2 (d) Chapter IV Appendix L of the FIA International Sporting Code. It was just presented by the (British) media in a way that it was one driver only, the second driver being noted in the small print.
Text from the F1 website (the decision of the stewards):-
The stewards saw fit to hand Verstappen a further 10-second penalty and two penalty points (taking him to a total of seven over the 12-month period) with their report reading: "At Turn 21 the driver of car 33 [Verstappen] was given the instruction to give back a position to car 44 [Hamilton] and was told by the team to do so 'strategically'. Car 33 slowed significantly at Turn 26.
"However, it was obvious that neither driver wanted to take the lead prior to DRS detection line 3. The driver of Car 33 stated that he was wondering why Car 44 had not overtaken and the driver of Car 44 stated that, not having been aware at that stage that Car 33 was giving the position back, was unaware of the reason Car 33 was slowing.
"In deciding to penalise the driver of Car 33, the key point for the Stewards was that the driver of car 33 then braked suddenly (69 bar) and significantly, resulting in 2.4g deceleration.
"Whilst accepting that the driver of Car 44 could have overtaken Car 33 when that car first slowed, we understand why he (and the driver of Car 33) did not wish to be the first to cross the DRS [line]. However, the sudden braking by the driver of Car 33 was determined by the Stewards to be erratic and hence the predominant cause of the collision and hence the standard penalty of 10 seconds for this type of incident, is imposed."
Verstappen was therefore found to have breached Article 2, Chapter IV Appendix L of the FIA International Sporting Code, but keeps his second-place finish and enters the season finale level on points with Hamilton.
I've been a fan of F1 since the sketchy days of coverage back in 1976, the year James Hunt won. I've seen this "battle" over the years numerous times. There was less red tape back in the day, but the drivers took the same liberties over the decades. The most famously celebrated aggressive driver was Senna. I don't think we're even close yet to the Senna Prost era, what we're seeing now is a bit if handbags. Of course these days you're less likely to lose your life if it goes wrong in a big way. That's a good thing, but it's lead to complacency.
One thing has bugged me recently is lack of continuity with penalities. There were a number of incidents during today's race (and previous race this season) not involving the title protagonists that invovled using run off areas that all went unpenalised.
I don't see a soluton to this run off area issue going forward, the only way to stop is to go back to gravel traps, or maybe develop a modern equivalent surface that slows the cars down enough (without beaching them and removing them from the race) that travelling across the run off area is in itself a penalty.
I love tight racing, it's finally good to see a genuine title battle. The sport being dominated by a superior vehicle with no genuine competition is simply dull. Show me the last time the World title was won by an inferior car/team. You'll be going back a long way to the days where you only counted your best 8 results and it created anomalies. SO to have two close teams is a good thing.
Today's race events though was a culmination of poor (penalty) decisions over the whole season. When it's not clear if you're going to get a penalty or not, or it even appears that some penalites are a negotiation, top drivers will act first then get questions asked of them later. If they continue to get away with a driving style for long enough they will continue to push it as far as they can. Why wouldn't you? The stakes are huge.
MV drives like he does because the sport has allowed it and F1 is not quite sure how to deal with it in the current age of extreme political correctness and woke culture. LH has been dominant for so long he's not quite sure how to handle a driver that's prepared to be more agressive than he is and push the limits of the rules. Mainly because he's not had an oponent recently that had a car with enough performance to geuninely bother him.
I like the controversy if I'm honest. However if it's not soreted for next year it's not MV or LH or Red Bull or Mercedes that ends up with egg on it's face - It's F1 as a sport. It's all getting a little bit too lost in rules that have no consistency that people don't seem to fully understand.
The 10 car length issue at the restart was a good example. It seems not one team understood that was different.
Oh and rolling restarts at street circuits seems like a logical progression after today.
Text from the F1 website (the decision of the stewards):-
The stewards saw fit to hand Verstappen a further 10-second penalty and two penalty points (taking him to a total of seven over the 12-month period) with their report reading: "At Turn 21 the driver of car 33 [Verstappen] was given the instruction to give back a position to car 44 [Hamilton] and was told by the team to do so 'strategically'. Car 33 slowed significantly at Turn 26.
"However, it was obvious that neither driver wanted to take the lead prior to DRS detection line 3. The driver of Car 33 stated that he was wondering why Car 44 had not overtaken and the driver of Car 44 stated that, not having been aware at that stage that Car 33 was giving the position back, was unaware of the reason Car 33 was slowing.
"In deciding to penalise the driver of Car 33, the key point for the Stewards was that the driver of car 33 then braked suddenly (69 bar) and significantly, resulting in 2.4g deceleration.
"Whilst accepting that the driver of Car 44 could have overtaken Car 33 when that car first slowed, we understand why he (and the driver of Car 33) did not wish to be the first to cross the DRS [line]. However, the sudden braking by the driver of Car 33 was determined by the Stewards to be erratic and hence the predominant cause of the collision and hence the standard penalty of 10 seconds for this type of incident, is imposed."
Verstappen was therefore found to have breached Article 2, Chapter IV Appendix L of the FIA International Sporting Code, but keeps his second-place finish and enters the season finale level on points with Hamilton.
I've been a fan of F1 since the sketchy days of coverage back in 1976, the year James Hunt won. I've seen this "battle" over the years numerous times. There was less red tape back in the day, but the drivers took the same liberties over the decades. The most famously celebrated aggressive driver was Senna. I don't think we're even close yet to the Senna Prost era, what we're seeing now is a bit if handbags. Of course these days you're less likely to lose your life if it goes wrong in a big way. That's a good thing, but it's lead to complacency.
One thing has bugged me recently is lack of continuity with penalities. There were a number of incidents during today's race (and previous race this season) not involving the title protagonists that invovled using run off areas that all went unpenalised.
I don't see a soluton to this run off area issue going forward, the only way to stop is to go back to gravel traps, or maybe develop a modern equivalent surface that slows the cars down enough (without beaching them and removing them from the race) that travelling across the run off area is in itself a penalty.
I love tight racing, it's finally good to see a genuine title battle. The sport being dominated by a superior vehicle with no genuine competition is simply dull. Show me the last time the World title was won by an inferior car/team. You'll be going back a long way to the days where you only counted your best 8 results and it created anomalies. SO to have two close teams is a good thing.
Today's race events though was a culmination of poor (penalty) decisions over the whole season. When it's not clear if you're going to get a penalty or not, or it even appears that some penalites are a negotiation, top drivers will act first then get questions asked of them later. If they continue to get away with a driving style for long enough they will continue to push it as far as they can. Why wouldn't you? The stakes are huge.
MV drives like he does because the sport has allowed it and F1 is not quite sure how to deal with it in the current age of extreme political correctness and woke culture. LH has been dominant for so long he's not quite sure how to handle a driver that's prepared to be more agressive than he is and push the limits of the rules. Mainly because he's not had an oponent recently that had a car with enough performance to geuninely bother him.
I like the controversy if I'm honest. However if it's not soreted for next year it's not MV or LH or Red Bull or Mercedes that ends up with egg on it's face - It's F1 as a sport. It's all getting a little bit too lost in rules that have no consistency that people don't seem to fully understand.
The 10 car length issue at the restart was a good example. It seems not one team understood that was different.
Oh and rolling restarts at street circuits seems like a logical progression after today.
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So all Max needs to do now is take Hamilton out - and it doesn’t matter if he takes himself out as well, due to the count back of wins - to get the WDC? (Unless he got a points deduction in doing so, which would be poetic justice...)
But instead, he is given a slap on the wrist with a wet lettuce. absolutely no meaningful deterrent.
That should see a stop to that sort of dangerous behaviour then.....
On second thoughts, with Mercedes 28 points ahead in the WCC, if they both went out, while Max would become WDC, Mercedes would win WCC, with all the extra millions that would bring.
So how loyal is Max to Red Bull Racing, as opposed to his own ambitions? And how genuine would Whinger Spice’s praise of Max as WDC be if it cost Red Bull the WCC?
OK, it’s a long shot for RBR to take the WCC anyway, but it is still mathematically possible.
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As I was stuck working at my computer most of yesterday, I put the F1 on in the background. I used to watch F1 a lot back in the BBC days but lost track when it went to Sky a decade of so ago. The last time I watched a show it was presented by Jake Humphries, EJ & Coulthard.
I guess I picked a good one for my return. I turned it on just in time for the first restart and I got my money's worth. Fascinating race, excellent coverage.
I guess I picked a good one for my return. I turned it on just in time for the first restart and I got my money's worth. Fascinating race, excellent coverage.
Well F1 has collectively ducked this and the sport is poorer for it,MV reduced that race to a spat between two drives on a A road when one brake tests another and a driver gets out and smashes the other car,and the stewards/police practically said if nobody is hurt we are not interested,5 sec/10 sec penalty,when MV reduced that race to a stock car event is just not right,and anybody trying to defend that will I expect be capable of playing those games on the A road near you,and what is so crazy is that everybody connected to F1 including LH are playing the this was not that serious,and coming up with all sorts of lame excuses for what happened,MV has dragged F1 into the gutter and F1 seem to like it there.
D
Deleted member 55947
Guest
MV should have been given a 30 Sec or points deduction penalty suspended and carried over to the final race, to be enforced if he errs again in that race.
