Formula One 2018 - General Thread

[GeeJayW]

^I agree.

If Andy Murray, Bradley Wiggins et al can be knighted, I see no reason why Lewis shouldn't be offered a knighthood.

 

[Darrell]

I'd love to know when those halcyon days were, when every driver on the grid had a chance of winning the race and races were nip and tuck from start to finish.

Err, when was that? I think given the right car, every driver can win.

 

[baxlin]

Err, when was that? I think given the right car, every driver can win.

Bottas (Mercedes), Webber (Red Bull), Kyvat (Red Bull), Massa, Barrachello (both Ferrari)...

Yep, world champions, all in the right car.

 

[GeeJayW]

Err, when was that? I think given the right car, every driver can win.

My point is, there has never been a time in F1 when every driver had a chance of winning or that every race was a thrilling display of close racing. It has often been the case where a particular driver/car combination is dominant, sometimes simply romping away to victory.

Unless there is a single make formula (and who wants that? Not me.), the cars will always be different. Even if F1 was a one-make series, by the time the really good/talented, well funded teams and drivers are finished testing and setting the cars up, the cars' on-track performance capabilities aren't all the same. So guess what, the better team and driver wins.

I think Lewis is somewhat more talented than many, even most of the other drivers on the grid. In the same car, maybe some of the other current F1 drivers could give him a run for his money. I'm thinking maybe Max, Daniel, maybe Seb. The others would I think struggle, especially over a season.

Alonso couldn't stay with him and left McLaren, Nico only managed it by resorting to some rather dodgy tactics. Seb couldn't do it this year in the red car that has often been superior.

Would Lance Stroll, Vandorn, Hulkenberg, have won the WDC in this year's Mercedes? I don't think so.

 

[Tensofbenz]

Well done Lewis, great for Him, Great Britain and Mercedes-Benz.
I hope they never bring back the multi tyre manufacturer rule, i think those years were ruined by which teams had committed to which manufacturer.
I wish they would cut down on down force and rely more on mechanical grip, they would race nearer without upsetting the balance so much.
DR has probably lost the last chance he had of ever winning an F1 race, sad to see him go to a lower team, he should be up there with the others.

 

[brucemillar]

To compete at the very top in F1 you need to have the entire team (on your side of the garage) backing you and giving everything you are, and some, to you.

You need the car built around you as much as the team is built around you. Remembering your biggest competitor for the first few, crucial races is going to be your team mate.

The idea of any driver simply rocking up, stepping into a new/alien set up and winning is nice but unlikely.

Politics plays a huge part in the team as does money and respect.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Darrell]

My point is, there has never been a time in F1 when every driver had a chance of winning or that every race was a thrilling display of close racing.

I totally agree with you.

I remember when Mansell won the WC and the pub bored saying ‘you could put a monkey in that car and it would win’ nothing much changes does it?

 

[GeeJayW]

I totally agree with you.

I remember when Mansell won the WC and the pub bored saying ‘you could put a monkey in that car and it would win’ nothing much changes does it?

So are you saying that one of the pair driving for Williams this year would be world champion if only they'd been in a works Mercedes? I don't think so. That said, I don't think Lewis would have been world champion this year driving a Williams either.

 

[Darrell]

So are you saying that one of the pair driving for Williams this year would be world champion if only they'd been in a works Mercedes? I don't think so. That said, I don't think Lewis would have been world champion this year driving a Williams either.

So is Lewis the best driver or is it just because he has the best car?

Or is it that he has got a very good car and a good team because he’s the best driver?

 

[Mactech]

Some 14 years ago I wrote a controversial article which prioritised the elements for going quickly around a race circuit from a race engineers perspective.
I had very little kickback from the racing community, and I haven't really changed my views.

 

[bob6600]

Fair play from Seb

Mercedes-AMG F1 on Twitter

 

[BIG Sean]

Thanks Mac - a cracking read!

 

[st13phil]

Some 14 years ago I wrote a controversial article which prioritised the elements for going quickly around a race circuit from a race engineers perspective.

Having never had the benefit of being at the sharp end of motorsport, but nevertheless being an Engineer, the logic expressed in that article makes a great deal of sense. However, we do see - particularly in F1 Qualifying - examples of particular drivers (Hamilton, Senna, and a few others) routinely seeming to be able to make much better use of their equipment than their team-mate.

So, a question: How much of that difference is down to the driver's innate ability to drive the car, perhaps by modifying their approach to maximise the car's performance with a given setup, and how much is down to how the the driver influences the setup and characteristics of the car and uses that to gain advantage?

 

[Dryce]

So, a question: How much of that difference is down to the driver's innate ability to drive the car, perhaps by modifying their approach to maximise the car's performance with a given setup, and how much is down to how the the driver influences the setup and characteristics of the car and uses that to gain advantage?

Both.

And I think we see situations where a car and its characteristics suit a particular driver.

So I would say Vettel's second and third titles were an example of a driver and car that matched together supremely well. Arguably Button's title was not just the car's superiority but also that it matched his style. As the season went on the rivals caught up and arguably his WDC was not won by his driving at at the start but at the end as his rivals equipment caught up. Michael Schumacher's dominance was backed by a car that Ferrari built around him - and probably at the expense of his teammates.

At the end of the day if you can make a car much better than your rivals the value (and by implication the cost you should bear) of the driver is reduced. So in 2016's Merrcedes with its rivals that year then Bottas would probably win a championship in it. OTOH this year with Ferrari and Mercedes closer and more 'on the edge' of how much more there is to cleanly exploit from the regulations the value of Vettel and Hamilton is disinctly a greater part of the package because they become the differentiator on many of the race weekends.

Going back to Ricciardo - at the moment unless Renault improve the drive train or he turns out to be significantly better than Hulkenberg then they are likely to be overpaying for him as a component in their race car. He is worth more to Red Bull and Ferrari. Similarly Alonso at McLaren was a huge mismatch - they would be better off putting the money into their car and sorting it - and employing a cheaper driver.

 

[Mactech]

Having never had the benefit of being at the sharp end of motorsport, but nevertheless being an Engineer, the logic expressed in that article makes a great deal of sense. However, we do see - particularly in F1 Qualifying - examples of particular drivers (Hamilton, Senna, and a few others) routinely seeming to be able to make much better use of their equipment than their team-mate.

So, a question: How much of that difference is down to the driver's innate ability to drive the car, perhaps by modifying their approach to maximise the car's performance with a given setup, and how much is down to how the the driver influences the setup and characteristics of the car and uses that to gain advantage?

Motorsport is a team game. All the elements have got to come together to be successful.
There is no doubt that when the members of the team are good at their particular role, then that can influence and encourage other members to raise their game to a new level. The old cliche of 'only as good as the weakest link' applies (as in engineering!) here.
I don't believe that it is pure coincidence that I have won 3 World Championships when I have worked with a driver for the second time.
The performance of the engineer and driver is interactive. As trust and respect grows between them they feed off each other....and the rest of the team.
Almost all the drivers in F1 have driving ability to win a title. Their interaction with the team, their internal 'drive' and the ability to make strategic career decisions single out just a few.

 

[Dryce]

Both.

Apologies to Mactech for the edit that created a misquote in his name.

 

[Dryce]

Almost all the drivers in F1 have driving ability to win a title. Their interaction with the team, their internal 'drive' and the ability to make strategic career decisions single out just a few.

I think in practical terms I'd disagree.

In principle you can have a situation where a car is just so much better than its rivals that you could stick any F1 driver in it and it wins. But that doesn't really happen does it? The teams don't sit still and it is very very unusual to see a team have an such a gap from all the others.

I think very few have the driving ability to win the title under normal circumstances - win races yes - title no. Remove LH and SV from their teams and just leave their team mates. Both would win races. But they'd also leave more for RB to pick up. Add some pressure because they have a WDC at stake then they mihght also crack a bit as the season continued (OK, KR probably wouldn't). With a bit better reliability from Red Bull we'd see MV in the title fight and DR getting another win or two. With more to fight for then Red Bull and MV would rise to the challenge - without LH and SV would their teams make more mistakes?

My observation of the great tennis players is that they get by on 90% to beat most opponents and then crank up the spare 10% when needed for critical points or against more difficult opponents. Federer and Sampras are both prime examples of dominant players who could cruise and then turn the dial up to 11 as needed.

I think the situation with the best drivers is the same. I think SV in particular - despite the untidiness in passing - is masterful once he gets control of a race. He can turn it down and up as he needs to protect his position and his car. He can adjust to strategy. LH clearly can manage it too but I don't think he developed this part of his skillset so early - I feel he improved during the end of his stint at McLaren - and then improved again over the last couple of years - his inate talent was so strong that he didn't need it to show how good he was.

 

[Mactech]

Oh! I don't think we disagree!
Just depends where you separate 'driving ability' from all the other important life skills required to become a champion.
If you look very carefully, you'll see that I didn't actually say which title they were likely to win.....

 

[Dryce]

Just depends where you separate 'driving ability' from all the other important life skills required to become a champion.

And I guess right place right time - bit like more ordinary mortals who find their career paths work better or worse depending being about at the right time when there is an opportunity.

I would guess that among those involved in design and engineering there is the same situation - just less well known outside the community.

 

[Stratman]

Palmer says Hamilton would still have won title in a Ferrari