vincenz
Active Member
I had been reading the piston heads thread with interest as I was considering changing to a 320d, I think the most interesting post is on page 42;
BMW 635d's most certainly do exist and are being targeed. Sorry I got that wrong - it's confusing because some of the datasets I have show engine size as 3.0 which obviously the 635d's are. 730d's are being nicked too.
The crux of the problem is this:
I have at my disposal a huge database containing all this information. I am not able to link to it (it is not pulic domain) and I cannot refer directly to it any more than a doctor could refer to medical notes. For example I would never dream of posting information as sepcific as Band0 seemed to be willing to.
I also do not have access to this database when I'm posting. I am forced to refer to it from memory - it's not easy to recall perfect details when I'm talking about literally hundreds of reports.
I'm also not in a position to have a 'strategic overview' like many claim to in this thread. My information is from a relatively limited geographical area but a large sample size if that makes sense.
Believe me or choose not to, but I am fairly uniquely positioned in the centre of this issue in that: I am dealing with muliple instances first hand (so not a lone victim telling of their particular theft) I am not affiliated to BMW in any way but I just so happen to know a guy who actually works on their CAS systems as a design engineer so speaking to him about what BMW know has been very interesting to say the least. They are not as blind to the problem as they may seem and while some of their public responses are indeed laughable they are though necessity trying to keep a lid on the situation.
Some facts for you to ponder from my experience. Sorry, no links to corroborate this as none of it is in the public domain and I could obviously have made it all up.
Roughly 2/3 rds of thefts involve broken glass at scene or on recovery of car (sample size ~300 vehicles) It appears that high tech methods are NOT routinely employed to gain access to these cars. Accurate lock drilling/pulling is also happening but less frequently. Also in a minority of cases, often involving cars with comfort entry, there is no clear indication how access was gained. There is credible evidence that radio jammers may be used to block a key fob from remotely locking a car, or to disruupt the 'comfort entry' proximity system. This causes victims to walk away leaving their vehicles unlocked unwittingly and they will swear blind they locked their car as they always do.
BMW's are the only premium cars being stolen without keys in any significant number. Thefts outnumber the next most stolen premium marque about 3:1 (audis - key burglaries largely). Obviously this is meaningless without relative 'population sizes'. Audis and Mercs seem immune to "high tech" keyless theft. There are handfuls of other "keyless" thefts across all marques but these generally shake down to being the victim being mistaken (or on occasion lying to cover up the fact they left their keys in the ignition and thus invalidating their insurance) or to cars being lifted for parking infractions and then the reports not being properly resolved. Some very old cars are obviously still hotwireable. It's safe to say that in my experience NO criminal gang routinely lifts these cars on recovery trucks. Sheds towed by tinkers for scrap - yes. BMW's lifted off the street onto recovery trucks? No.
Recovery rates are very low at under 20% for BMW's vs over 50% across the board for all makes/models. Believe it or not if you get your car stolen you have a good chance of getting it back if it's not a BMW.
The device mentioned earlier in this thread doesn't code the key to the car, it codes the car to the key - it adds the key to the CAS as an accepted key which then opens and starts the car as normal. You can code one key to multiple cars in this manner. The key is in effect "solid state" and can't be re-coded or given a new identity, and doesn't need to be.
It is almost exclusively M-sport trim vehicles being taken. Diesels are very commonly stolen, along with all points of the model ranges. Premium specs are seemingly targeted like 335i's, 335d's but again without knowing the relative sales numbers its hard to know what's significant. 120d's, 5 series of all engine variants are going just as regularly so it's by no means only big engined or the most powerful cars being sought by thieves (but nice trim and spec ones and left hand drives do certainly seem to be more nickable)
Vehicles 2006 to present are affected, so long as it's an 'electronic' key without a physical ignition barrel. 2006-2009 seem worst hit. Again one assumes becuase it's parts demand driving theft and there's less parts demand for brand new cars.
What we AREN'T seeing is M-cars being targeted. Very few M5/M6/M3's are going. One assumes that this is because there isn't parts demand for them abroad, where smaller engines and diesels are far more common. This is of course conjecture. Being petrol heads I guess we assume that if you could stroll off with any BMW you'd pick the most potent. These are organised gangs and they steal for profit, not joyriding or fun.
X5's and X6's are being stolen - they're more likely to be recovered and they appear to be staying in one piece and going for export to Africa, whereas the bulk of "saloon" cars nicked appear to be broken for panels and parts very quickly and so recovery chances are lower.
It is also a big problem in Germany and the rest of the continent, the UK is not alone.
There is no suggestion BMW dealers/garages are involved - they don't need to be. You don't need loads of spare keys because one can be used over and over again. Remember, they're driving these cars off to be broken, not re-selling them whole. Finding a BMW to steal appears as simple as trawling streets/ carparks with high density of BMW's i.e. affluent areas and taking your pick of one on the desired list. Why try harder? On occasion there's indication specific cars may have been targeted for some reason -perhaps they're on that weeks shopping list - but overwhelmingly they are being taken from streets, drives and open spaces rather than within garages/secure or hidden areas.
So, take it or leave it..... I've seen the data first hand, I've spoken directly to people who've had their cars stolen, I've spoken to people with a strategic nationwide overview of the problems from a number of angles. No one is in any doubt it's a big issue but with corporate reputations at stake no one should be surprised that companies aren't shouting failings from the rooftop. They need to solve the problem before it blows up and this becomes even more common knowledge - although I'd suggest the stable door is wide open and the horse fast disappearing over the horizon now.
Sorry, I nearly forgot the important bit, which is of course the Crime Prevention advice:
1) Park somewhere overlooked and garage the car if you can.
2) Disable the OBD port in some cunning way.
3) Use additional physical security such as a steering wheel lock.
4) Consider additional and aftermarket immobilisers/trackers. Something perhaps that cuts fuel and is independant of the keyed ignition. Sadly I think this kind of security may become an necessity from an insurance point of view as time wears on.
BMW 635d's most certainly do exist and are being targeed. Sorry I got that wrong - it's confusing because some of the datasets I have show engine size as 3.0 which obviously the 635d's are. 730d's are being nicked too.
The crux of the problem is this:
I have at my disposal a huge database containing all this information. I am not able to link to it (it is not pulic domain) and I cannot refer directly to it any more than a doctor could refer to medical notes. For example I would never dream of posting information as sepcific as Band0 seemed to be willing to.
I also do not have access to this database when I'm posting. I am forced to refer to it from memory - it's not easy to recall perfect details when I'm talking about literally hundreds of reports.
I'm also not in a position to have a 'strategic overview' like many claim to in this thread. My information is from a relatively limited geographical area but a large sample size if that makes sense.
Believe me or choose not to, but I am fairly uniquely positioned in the centre of this issue in that: I am dealing with muliple instances first hand (so not a lone victim telling of their particular theft) I am not affiliated to BMW in any way but I just so happen to know a guy who actually works on their CAS systems as a design engineer so speaking to him about what BMW know has been very interesting to say the least. They are not as blind to the problem as they may seem and while some of their public responses are indeed laughable they are though necessity trying to keep a lid on the situation.
Some facts for you to ponder from my experience. Sorry, no links to corroborate this as none of it is in the public domain and I could obviously have made it all up.
Roughly 2/3 rds of thefts involve broken glass at scene or on recovery of car (sample size ~300 vehicles) It appears that high tech methods are NOT routinely employed to gain access to these cars. Accurate lock drilling/pulling is also happening but less frequently. Also in a minority of cases, often involving cars with comfort entry, there is no clear indication how access was gained. There is credible evidence that radio jammers may be used to block a key fob from remotely locking a car, or to disruupt the 'comfort entry' proximity system. This causes victims to walk away leaving their vehicles unlocked unwittingly and they will swear blind they locked their car as they always do.
BMW's are the only premium cars being stolen without keys in any significant number. Thefts outnumber the next most stolen premium marque about 3:1 (audis - key burglaries largely). Obviously this is meaningless without relative 'population sizes'. Audis and Mercs seem immune to "high tech" keyless theft. There are handfuls of other "keyless" thefts across all marques but these generally shake down to being the victim being mistaken (or on occasion lying to cover up the fact they left their keys in the ignition and thus invalidating their insurance) or to cars being lifted for parking infractions and then the reports not being properly resolved. Some very old cars are obviously still hotwireable. It's safe to say that in my experience NO criminal gang routinely lifts these cars on recovery trucks. Sheds towed by tinkers for scrap - yes. BMW's lifted off the street onto recovery trucks? No.
Recovery rates are very low at under 20% for BMW's vs over 50% across the board for all makes/models. Believe it or not if you get your car stolen you have a good chance of getting it back if it's not a BMW.
The device mentioned earlier in this thread doesn't code the key to the car, it codes the car to the key - it adds the key to the CAS as an accepted key which then opens and starts the car as normal. You can code one key to multiple cars in this manner. The key is in effect "solid state" and can't be re-coded or given a new identity, and doesn't need to be.
It is almost exclusively M-sport trim vehicles being taken. Diesels are very commonly stolen, along with all points of the model ranges. Premium specs are seemingly targeted like 335i's, 335d's but again without knowing the relative sales numbers its hard to know what's significant. 120d's, 5 series of all engine variants are going just as regularly so it's by no means only big engined or the most powerful cars being sought by thieves (but nice trim and spec ones and left hand drives do certainly seem to be more nickable)
Vehicles 2006 to present are affected, so long as it's an 'electronic' key without a physical ignition barrel. 2006-2009 seem worst hit. Again one assumes becuase it's parts demand driving theft and there's less parts demand for brand new cars.
What we AREN'T seeing is M-cars being targeted. Very few M5/M6/M3's are going. One assumes that this is because there isn't parts demand for them abroad, where smaller engines and diesels are far more common. This is of course conjecture. Being petrol heads I guess we assume that if you could stroll off with any BMW you'd pick the most potent. These are organised gangs and they steal for profit, not joyriding or fun.
X5's and X6's are being stolen - they're more likely to be recovered and they appear to be staying in one piece and going for export to Africa, whereas the bulk of "saloon" cars nicked appear to be broken for panels and parts very quickly and so recovery chances are lower.
It is also a big problem in Germany and the rest of the continent, the UK is not alone.
There is no suggestion BMW dealers/garages are involved - they don't need to be. You don't need loads of spare keys because one can be used over and over again. Remember, they're driving these cars off to be broken, not re-selling them whole. Finding a BMW to steal appears as simple as trawling streets/ carparks with high density of BMW's i.e. affluent areas and taking your pick of one on the desired list. Why try harder? On occasion there's indication specific cars may have been targeted for some reason -perhaps they're on that weeks shopping list - but overwhelmingly they are being taken from streets, drives and open spaces rather than within garages/secure or hidden areas.
So, take it or leave it..... I've seen the data first hand, I've spoken directly to people who've had their cars stolen, I've spoken to people with a strategic nationwide overview of the problems from a number of angles. No one is in any doubt it's a big issue but with corporate reputations at stake no one should be surprised that companies aren't shouting failings from the rooftop. They need to solve the problem before it blows up and this becomes even more common knowledge - although I'd suggest the stable door is wide open and the horse fast disappearing over the horizon now.
Sorry, I nearly forgot the important bit, which is of course the Crime Prevention advice:
1) Park somewhere overlooked and garage the car if you can.
2) Disable the OBD port in some cunning way.
3) Use additional physical security such as a steering wheel lock.
4) Consider additional and aftermarket immobilisers/trackers. Something perhaps that cuts fuel and is independant of the keyed ignition. Sadly I think this kind of security may become an necessity from an insurance point of view as time wears on.
).
