Hybrids? waste of space.

[recycled]

Confirmation to all the tree huggers out there. hybrids are a waste of space. IF You want to save the planet ,which i dont, get a super mini diesel.

It tested 100 cars and found that every single car fell behind the government’s claimed combined economy figure. Most notable was the Toyota Prius, with an economy difference 30% behind what you should expect to get. The best performing car was the Fiat Panda 1.3 Multijet diesel, while the worst car for fuel economy was the Range Rover Sport Supercharged. In the list 78 of the top 100 most frugal cars are diesel, while only one hybrid and one bio-fuel car make an appearance. And only three cars managed to top 50mpg.
Unlike the official tests, which are conducted on a rolling road, all the Auto Express cars were tested on public roads in real conditions, where a car’s economy could be affected by everything from traffic conditions to weather.

 

[glojo]

Does any car match up to the official fuel economy figures?

I personally believe the current range of hybrids generally cater for either the green brigade, or the seen to be seen shower.

To me it is a bit of an oxymoron to have petrol and electric generation. Surely the torque of a diesel makes a much better, more efficient partner?

BUT

Oh the smell!! The US is light years behind the civilised world in regard to diesel and the way it is served. Can you imagine some superstar attempting to purchase diesel from a smelly, commercial grade pump?

In the life-time of our eldest citizens they have seen the Wright brothers fly a few yards on a piece of wood, string and canvas, These same citizens can now see footage of astronauts living on the International Space Station and coming back to Earth on a reusable aircraft. Compare that to how far the motor vehicle has advanced?? Or not advanced. Same type engine (four stroke) or as my old sergeant used to say 'Suck, squeeze bang blow!' Doors, battery, headlights, tyres, windscreen. Is there a more efficient means of propulsion, or are the fuel companies stifling any research?

Questions, questions

John

 

[seymansey]

Never mind the fact that a Fiat Panda also costs about half the price of a new Prius - this is covered in this month's Evo magazine, where the 100hp Panda is put up against the current prius. There isn't much in the MPG, which I find it makes it difficult to justify the extra price of what is essentially a toyota with a very large LCD in the dash with pretty (and distracting) mpg metrics flashing up on the screen (it's almost they are there to convince you that you are saving fuel).

The market will certainly move towards the hybrid power unit, but technologically, they are at the evolutionary stage equivalent to a 1970s perkins diesel

 

[glojo]

Nother pet hate.

Carbon footprint What a load of old tosh. Okay yuh.

We ensure we have a nuetral carbon footprint and our travel methods are all balanced out???

We're all canditates for the loony farm

John

 

[BenzComander]

Does any car match up to the official fuel economy figures?

I personally believe the current range of hybrids generally cater for either the green brigade, or the seen to be seen shower.

To me it is a bit of an oxymoron to have petrol and electric generation. Surely the torque of a diesel makes a much better, more efficient partner?

BUT

Oh the smell!! The US is light years behind the civilised world in regard to diesel and the way it is served. Can you imagine some superstar attempting to purchase diesel from a smelly, commercial grade pump?

In the life-time of our eldest citizens they have seen the Wright brothers fly a few yards on a piece of wood, string and canvas, These same citizens can now see footage of astronauts living on the International Space Station and coming back to Earth on a reusable aircraft. Compare that to how far the motor vehicle has advanced?? Or not advanced. Same type engine (four stroke) or as my old sergeant used to say 'Suck, squeeze bang blow!' Doors, battery, headlights, tyres, windscreen. Is there a more efficient means of propulsion, or are the fuel companies stifling any research?

Questions, questions

John

John, I firmly believe that there is a non-verbal conspiracy to stifle any other type of fuel or propulsion method. Human beings are incredibly resourceful, and you can’t tell me that in the last 100 years there has been no alternative to petrol/diesel produced.

I also think that electric powered cars are only a stopgap, and am hopeful that a real clean alternative can be found.

 

[R2e]

John, I firmly believe that there is a non-verbal conspiracy to stifle any other type of fuel or propulsion method. Human beings are incredibly resourceful, and you can’t tell me that in the last 100 years there has been no alternative to petrol/diesel produced.

I also think that electric powered cars are only a stopgap, and am hopeful that a real clean alternative can be found.

I remember when I was a kid (and that's a long time ago!) being told that someone had developed a car engine to run on water, but Shell and BP suppressed it. I believed it at the time, but as the years go on I'm less and less convinced by such conspiracy theory. Until nuclear fusion (like the sun uses) can be harnessed, it is unlikely that a source of energy will be found which is as efficient as carbon products. Hydrogen is a good fuel, as used in fuel cells, but so explosive in quantity and expensive to produce that until a unit to produce it to suit a fuel cell's demand (ie no on board hydrogen storage) is invented, I would guess it will be restricted to space rockets and experimental vehicles. The other alternative is some form of energy we are not yet aware of as atomic energy was until the last century, in other words new science.

In the last 100 years I would indeed suggest that there has been no viable alternative to petrol/diesel produced. Unless someone has evidence to the contrary

 

[tim.100]

I remember when I was a kid (and that's a long time ago!) being told that someone had developed a car engine to run on water,

I can't really let that pass. A patent enabling water to be used as a source of energy would be worth more than the market capitalisation of the entire FTSE 100; so you couldn't suppress such a discovery.

Have seen this conspiracy mentioned before, and it is the ultimate 'greenwash' - unsubstantiated trash that some people want to believe.

 

[Benzowner]

I can't really let that pass. A patent enabling water to be used as a source of energy would be worth more than the market capitalisation of the entire FTSE 100; so you couldn't suppress such a discovery.

Have seen this conspiracy mentioned before, and it is the ultimate 'greenwash' - unsubstantiated trash that some people want to believe.

Technically speaking, aside from a few minor impurities, water , as we know is made of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen, which normally is an explosive combination.

 

[grober]

What perhaps of more interest and value is Autoexpress' attempt to give all new cars a "green rating" which takes into account all aspects of a cars environmental impact including its running costs. http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/208985/new_green_ratings_for_all_cars.html

 

[BenzComander]

Car runs on air shock

Think this will work??

 

[BonzoDog]

But as we all know air pollution is only part of the problem, there is the pollution of congestion, the pollution of more roads, the pollution of parking and so on. It is not just about finding an alternative and acceptable fuel, which, in fact, could end up exacerbating the whole problem. Like all things at satuartion point, you fix one part and another explodes.

 

[Shude]

Hybrids are a waste of space for so many reasons! Here are just a couple:

Two engines, two fuel types and a complex drive system makes them heavy and inefficient.

Batteries in hybrids are effectively recharged using a petrol powered generator, there are no plug-in hybrids yet. If you drive around at 30mph in your hybrid for more than about an hour the battery will go flat and the car will switch to conventional petrol power until the battery has sufficient charge in it. Want to charge the batteries up? You need to visit a petrol station.

 

[Parrot of Doom]

Think this will work??

Where does the energy come from the compress the air?

 

[Shude]

Where does the energy come from the compress the air?

Electricity.

Before anyone tries to argue that electricity production isn't clean or renewable, just imagine that it is or that it likely will be in the very near future.

It's a LOT easier to control the waste output of one or two power stations when compared to several million privately owned cars.

 

[BonzoDog]

Although I am one of those that might be described as a 'tree-hugger' by some (not that I would describe myself as such) I feel that the debate is happening at too much of a macro-level. It is not just a question of this type of car versus that type of car or this type of energy versus that type of enrgy. I would say that it is a question of an ever expanding population using more and more of less and less.
I am of the view that we cannot continue expanding the population and increasing our use of resources infinitely. It has to stop at some point, doesn't it. If that is the case, do we want a chaotic stop or a gradual planned transition?

 

[recycled]

Electricity.

Before anyone tries to argue that electricity production isn't clean or renewable, just imagine that it is or that it likely will be in the very near future.

It's a LOT easier to control the waste output of one or two power stations when compared to several million privately owned cars.

Electricity comes from fossil fuel powered plants . And how do you get rid of all the hybrid batteries at the end of its shelf life?

 

[Dieselman]

Electricity comes from fossil fuel powered plants . And how do you get rid of all the hybrid batteries at the end of its shelf life?

A lot easier than getting rid of nuclear fuel rods.

The idea is the electricity is generated from renewable sources such as wind light and wave power.

Judging by some of the threads on here there will be no shortage of wind...

 

[Dryce]

The idea is the electricity is generated from renewable sources such as wind light and wave power.

Judging by some of the threads on here there will be no shortage of wind...

The arguments are corrupted by dishonesty on all sides.

Wind farm power output is always quoted without qualification. (The media use an odd energy unit called a 'home' whereas I prefer to see an average annual KWh plus some idea of the variation). Once you have unreliable renewables generating more than your contingent non-renewable capacity you have to add more non-renewable capacity.

A poxy wind farm quoted at 72MW probably averages 24KW and that's an average which means part of the time it's generating nothing, nada, zilch.
Work out the number of hectares of ground you need to generate the equivalent of an ordinary 1200MW nuclear or fossil station. And you still need contingency power.

If we all ran electric cars then guess what? We need yet more grid electricity generation.

The pragmatic low CO2 solution is massive amounts of renewable + nuclear + pump storage on a scale never seen before + commited energy conservation + some backup fossil plant.

Sadly nuclear is a dirty word. Renewables are exaggerated. Gross domestic energy consumption is likely to go up rather than down. Which means we're going to be dependent on fossil fuel based electricity for the next genertion.

 

[Dieselman]

we're going to be dependent on fossil fuel based electricity for the next genertion.

Will it last that long?

 

[Dryce]

Will it last that long?

Basically ... Yes.

As the energy price goes up the amount of oil, gas, and coal that can be economically extracted and transported goes up.

Similarly this also changes viability of different kinds of renewables (eg. a higher price means more marginal locations for windfarms become viable). It also changes consumption patterns and conservation strategies.