Hybrids? waste of space.

[Dieter]

Hi,

I don't know why only CO2 gets mentioned because other gasses e.g. methane (CH4) have much greater green house effects than CO2.

The point about hybrids etc. (if you ignore the energy required to make them) is that they are very efficient in traffic AND they are exempt from Congestion charge (though as they occupy similar space to other cars they, by default, contribute to congestion). Also batteries will become both cheaper and more efficient.

Old (Prius) NiH batteries can only run for a mile or so etc. (w/out engine back up) whereas new Li ion batteries can run for 30 miles or so.

So current hybrids are simply part of the evolution to much more efficient hybrid vehicles which should/could result in more efficient use of our dwindling stocks of fossil fuels.

However, given the current horrendous price of the battery component ( £4K - 5£K) it doesn't make financial sense go this route (yet) unless you can also save 8 quid a day (in London).

I hasten to add I 'go by Train'.

Cheers,

 

[Alfie]

The Hybrid car is simply a marketing exercise riding on the back of a government/media manipulated campaign of mis-information about global warming. It is one of the biggest distortions of the facts I have ever seen. It is yet another avenue of taxation in the name of 'Saving the planet'

The Hybrid car is also very ugly. I laugh when I see someone in one.

Global warming IS happening but its not the motorist or the industry that supports it thats causing it. Its decomposing of vegetation, far eastern industrialisation, deforestation, cows farting and the fact that we are steadily getting nearer to the sun albeit very slowly. The earth has been warming up for hundreds of years.

 

[Dieselman]

The Hybrid car is simply a marketing exercise riding on the back of a government/media manipulated campaign of mis-information about global warming. It is one of the biggest distortions of the facts I have ever seen. It is yet another avenue of taxation in the name of 'Saving the planet'

The Hybrid car is also very ugly. I laugh when I see someone in one.

Global warming IS happening but its not the motorist or the industry that supports it thats causing it. Its decomposing of vegetation, far eastern industrialisation, deforestation, cows farting and the fact that we are steadily getting nearer to the sun albeit very slowly. The earth has been warming up for hundreds of years.

Your point of view regarding current hybrids is valid, because they use inefficient petrol engines as the motive force due to being designed for the USA marketplace. When diesel hybrids come on stream things should improve somewhat due to the efficiency gains.
No axe to grind here just a bald reality, petrol engines are only 25% efficient at best, modern diesels are between 43% and 50% efficient, heavy oil ship engines are about 52% efficient.

With your take on global warming and the causes I'm surprised you haven't been picked to be a leading scientist in this field. It would be a lot cheaper to employ you as opposed to the thousands of scientists who are currently working in this arena, who incidentally disagree with your theory.

Yes plants do create CO2 but the world as a whole is naturally in balance..the problem is the additional CO2 generated by burning fossil fuels.
The fossil fuels took millions of years trapping carbon to be created. We've burned most of them up in 150 years, releasing all the trapped carbon in the process.

Vehicles definitely do play a part in the release of carbon due to their relative lack of efficiency and the sheer volume of miles covered.
Who would buy a boiler to heat a house knowing it to be 25% efficient at best..no one due to the cost to run. Why not employ the same rationale to cars?

 

[marcos]

With your take on global warming and the causes I'm surprised you haven't been picked to be a leading scientist in this field. It would be a lot cheaper to employ you as opposed to the thousands of scientists who are currently working in this arena, who incidentally disagree with your theory.

And there are also plenty of scientists who disagree completely with the global warming theory. These scientists are not funded by goverments, unlike all the ones who say it is purely down to our usage of fossil fuels who are funded by goverments. Remember we are still coming to the end of an ice age so things are going to heat up as has always happened at the end of ice ages.
I agree that as humans we could do more to slow this process but vehicle pollution is not a major problem when the whole picture is taken into account but to say it is is a sure fire way of pulling in loads more tax dollars.

 

[Dieselman]

.
I agree that as humans we could do more to slow this process but vehicle pollution is not a major problem when the whole picture is taken into account but to say it is is a sure fire way of pulling in loads more tax dollars.

How do you work that out given that low emission vehicles such as small diesel cars pay less RFL and fuel tax than ever before?

As of the end of this month I will be paying no fuel tax due to running on Biodiesel. How will the government be getting more tax from me when they have introduced the scheme where they will get none.?

If they didn't genuinely believe these measures to be worth implimenting, why have they introduced such a tax break?

I'm confused.

 

[Alfie]

With your take on global warming and the causes I'm surprised you haven't been picked to be a leading scientist in this field. It would be a lot cheaper to employ you as opposed to the thousands of scientists who are currently working in this arena, who incidentally disagree with your theory.

There is no need for such sarcasm.

I simply look at the whole picture and am not blinkered into following current 'trends' based on media and government manipulation.

Green taxes are not spent on 'green' issues. They exist purely as an exploitation of the masses current trend in 'thinking' its cars that cause the problem. Its not. As already said, there are thousands of scientists out there who totally disagree with the thinking that it is cars that are causing the problem. If you choose to believe the hype then that is your right. I choose to consider the wider view which supports my argument.

 

[recycled]

If everyone switches to biodiesel i am sure a tax will suddenly appear from no where. remember the fiasco of 4star and unleaded. switch to non polluting unleaded and no high charges than with leaded. What happened?
If everyone buys a gwizz tommorrow. Do you think congestion charge will be scrapped? No chance

 

[Dieselman]

There is no need for such sarcasm.

I simply look at the whole picture and am not blinkered into following current 'trends' based on media and government manipulation.

Green taxes are not spent on 'green' issues. They exist purely as an exploitation of the masses current trend in 'thinking' its cars that cause the problem. Its not. As already said, there are thousands of scientists out there who totally disagree with the thinking that it is cars that are causing the problem. If you choose to believe the hype then that is your right. I choose to consider the wider view which supports my argument.

Ok Alfie, I apologies for being a bit sarcastic, but I genuinely think you are following media hype. However if you have a contraversial view that goes against the general grain you should back that with some evidence.

When you research this it does genuinely appear that there is a problem as the CO2 level is out of balance with the temperatures and previous measurements.
Co2 levels are now higher than ever before and rising more quickly, why is that if this is a natural phenomenum?

Without doubt the majority of the worlds scientists do believe in global warming but as you say there are skeptics. We have covered this topic previously and one particular doubting scientist was found to have deep links within the oil industry. Now who's payroll was he on, and why might he want to discredit previous findings?

Recently even the oil industry have admitted to the position that global warming is happening and are now prepared to assist in reduction of usage by bringing on other means of fuel generation. Why are they doing that?

 

[Alfie]

How do you work that out given that low emission vehicles such as small diesel cars pay less RFL and fuel tax than ever before?

As of the end of this month I will be paying no fuel tax due to running on Biodiesel. How will the government be getting more tax from me when they have introduced the scheme where they will get none.?

If they didn't genuinely believe these measures to be worth implimenting, why have they introduced such a tax break?

I'm confused.

They dont seriously expect everyone to switch over. They offer it as a token gesture. Take the congestion zone charging/farce. If they were serious about reducing the congestion they would make the charge £1,000 a day but that would then wipe out a huge revenue stream. So what they do is to make it 'affordable'.

As for Biodiesel, what do you think they will tax when more and more people have switched over, if they do?

 

[Dieselman]

If everyone switches to biodiesel i am sure a tax will suddenly appear from no where. remember the fiasco of 4star and unleaded. switch to non polluting unleaded and no high charges than with leaded. What happened?
If everyone buys a gwizz tommorrow. Do you think congestion charge will be scrapped? No chance

Biodiesel is already being taxed, why remove a tax we are already happy to pay?

As far a 4 star/ unleaded there never was a tax break, only on ULSP and ULSD which saw a reduction of duty due to sulpher reduction.

 

[grober]

3 good reasons

3 guys and 3 reasons why the United Kingdom should be trying to reduce its dependency on fossil fuels and reducing its carbon footprint. i.e. become more fuel efficient. Nothing directly to do with global warming.

Vladimir Putin.

quote " quit complaining about this Polonium 210 guy (Alexander Litvinenko) or I'll give you a gas bill that will make your eyes water"

George Bush

quote " in order to save Iraq for democracy we had to destroy it" ( thats actually a quote from the Vietnam War but you get the idea).


Prince Bandar bin Sultan

quote "If you want this Al-Yamamah deal to go through there are certain "formalities" that will have to be adhered to".

 

[recycled]

Biodiesel is already being taxed, why remove a tax we are already happy to pay?

As far a 4 star/ unleaded there never was a tax break, only on ULSP and ULSD which saw a reduction of duty due to sulpher reduction.

What i mean is when 4 star was on sale it had the highest fuel tax due to pollution we were told because of lead.

When L.R.P came out and 4 star was phased out, the tax never went down and we had to complain to the revenue board that L.R.P was not anymore polluting than unleaded so why is the tax on L.R.P still highest.
Made us furious as our track day cars all ran on 4 star

 

[R2e]

Ok Alfie, I apologies for being a bit sarcastic, but I genuinely think you are following media hype. However if you have a contraversial view that goes against the general grain you should back that with some evidence.

When you research this it does genuinely appear that there is a problem as the CO2 level is out of balance with the temperatures and previous measurements.
Co2 levels are now higher than ever before and rising more quickly, why is that if this is a natural phenomenum?

Without doubt the majority of the worlds scientists do believe in global warming but as you say there are skeptics. We have covered this topic previously and one particular doubting scientist was found to have deep links within the oil industry. Now who's payroll was he on, and why might he want to discredit previous findings?

Recently even the oil industry have admitted to the position that global warming is happening and are now prepared to assist in reduction of usage by bringing on other means of fuel generation. Why are they doing that?

The problem appears to be that Global warming is happening. That is not at issue. It is something that has happened many times in the past history of the earth (including before the advent of the motor vehicle!!). I don't doubt that the majority of the world's scientists believe in global warming, what is in doubt is whether man has actually caused it and whether man can actually do anything about it. I think you'll find there is no majority holding this view as it is impossible to prove or disprove. It is noticeable that the people shouting the loudest are the politicians, including the UN, not the scientists. Tony Blair has already used it to push his Nuclear Power station strategy. Great way of reducing congestion too...... This thing has taken on a life of its own way out of proportion to the truth that can be proved. It is also a fact as mentioned earlier that the CO2 increase is years behind the temperature rise. Just ask yourself how that ties in with the "we're producing too much CO2 and causing global warming'. Global warming is causing the CO2 increase, a good proportion of it coming out of the melting ice in all likelihood.

This is not a matter of faith like religion. Start asking the questions, keep an open mind, and I think you will be truly surprised by the answers.

 

[Alfie]

The problem appears to be that Global warming is happening. That is not at issue. It is something that has happened many times in the past history of the earth (including before the advent of the motor vehicle!!). I don't doubt that the majority of the world's scientists believe in global warming, what is in doubt is whether man has actually caused it and whether man can actually do anything about it. I think you'll find there is no majority holding this view as it is impossible to prove or disprove. It is noticeable that the people shouting the loudest are the politicians, including the UN, not the scientists. Tony Blair has already used it to push his Nuclear Power station strategy. Great way of reducing congestion too...... This thing has taken on a life of its own way out of proportion to the truth that can be proved. It is also a fact as mentioned earlier that the CO2 increase is years behind the temperature rise. Just ask yourself how that ties in with the "we're producing too much CO2 and causing global warming'. Global warming is causing the CO2 increase, a good proportion of it coming out of the melting ice in all likelihood.

This is not a matter of faith like religion. Start asking the questions, keep an open mind, and I think you will be truly surprised by the answers.

Well said. Have a :bannana:

 

[Dieter]

Hi,

Global warming is just a sympton of the need to maintain our ever increasing population.

BioDiesel is a red herring as it's production is already pushing up the price of food (in China).

There's is no doubt that human activity is producing vast amounts of greenhouse gasses (CO2/methane/oxides of nitrogen etc. etc.) whilst at the same time we are decimating 'natural' sinks. Are you going to tell S.Americans that they should not chop down their rain forests for homes and food?

Ultimately the end of plentiful and cheap fossil based fuels is in sight so to get back on topic the development of hybrid vehicles is a small step on the way to much more fuel efficient vehicles.

The trouble with the UK slant on global warming is that all the PC minorities and the Government etc. saturate us with 'green' propaganda such that we easily desensitise to 'the message' and thus assume ulterior motives (it's a tax con etc.).

The planet isn't a thermostat and surface temperatures change (though I don't believe this has anything to do with a slowly decaying solar orbit! Alfie????).

Global warming is happening and there are several hypotheses as to the exact cause. My experience in general leads me to believe it's usually'six of one and half a dozen of the other' i.e. part natural/part exacerbated by human activity but can we (the 6,000,000,000 people on this planet) bury our heads in the sand (and there could be a lot more sand) and deny a valid hypothesis (an hypothesis is NOT a fact it's one, of usually several, explanations for many phenomena).

Cheers,

 

[Dieselman]

Hi,

BioDiesel is a red herring as it's production is already pushing up the price of food (in China).

I thought that was because of the reduced crops due to the reduction of rainfall and the advancement of the Gobi desert.

Crops are down something like 25% are they not?

Not sure how Biodiesel affects it as that is made from waste oil so no land has been turned over to it's production.

 

[recycled]

I just feel a bit confused that global warming can cause deserts / heavy rainfall/ melting ice /tornado /high temperatures / freezing temperatures /thunderstorms and dead whales turning up at the thames all at the same time.
I am not a geographical scientist but at least i am educated as is everyone on this forum thank goodness
Most of the tree huggers i have happened to come across, only have 1 or 2 learned persons in their group while the rest jump on a bandwagon and are totally clueless

No doubt something is happening to the planet but we need to find the source and eliminate it, not speculate.
How would you like to take a car to the garage and every thing is fiddled and tampered with until the problem is solved?
On a meeting in gloucester with the greenpeace, most of them did not know what a Lexus rx400h , meant.
Shows you about their homework.
yet they use speedboats to break security in the recent G8 summit. Hello engines, speed boat ,fuel environment.

As far as i am concerned until they find the source, the environment will take care of itself.
I for one can not be bothered.

 

[Dieselman]

.

I for one can not be bothered.

And there endeth the lesson.

A typical sod it approach.

You may be right, you may be wrong. If you are right then no problem, if you are wrong it really will be bad news if people don't do something to stop it.
Is it wise to play Russian roulette with such an important issue?

 

[recycled]

And there endeth the lesson.

A typical sod it approach.

You may be right, you may be wrong. If you are right then no problem, if you are wrong it really will be bad news if people don't do something to stop it.
Is it wise to play Russian roulette with such an important issue?

I really have not seen or heard about your own contribution to reducing your carbon footprint.
I am not bothered means that unless i or somebody can find concrete and not speculative solutions to the problem, then i am not ready to plunge my time and resources into any time wasting ventures which the people running this country seem to like doing a lot.
Imagine after 10yrs of living in the cold and travelling on your bike, you find out that global warming is caused by drinking beer. How would you feel?

 

[Dieselman]

I really have not seen or heard about your own contribution to reducing your carbon footprint.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but maybe you should read all the text in peoples posts rather than just the bits you want to see. There have been a number of referrences to how I might be achieving a lower carbon footprint than I used to.
A major one is switching to driving a diesel.
Now the question is why do I care, I've got no kids. I'll be dead before it really matters, or will I?

I am not bothered means that unless i or somebody can find concrete and not speculative solutions to the problem, then i am not ready to plunge my time and resources into any time wasting ventures which the people running this country seem to like doing a lot.

There appears to be plenty of supporting evidence, until it's too late the fact of what WILL happen in the future can only be hypothosis.
Fortunately there will be legislation to ensure people comply. It's upto you, either get onboard and adjust your lifestyle a bit or be taxed to death.

Imagine after 10yrs of living in the cold and travelling on your bike, ou find out that global warming is caused by drinking beer. How would you feel?

It is..
The making of beer commercially needs a lot of water and energy. That's it then ban all beer making, problem solved.

Seriously though, the way to tackle this (if it exists) is to have alternate methods of energy production and reduce the requirement.
That doesn't mean living in caves, as you might suggest, it means being aware when making choices.

It makes sense anyway to be more efficient in energy usage.