M156 vs m157 amg engines c63 e63 amg

[The _Don]

Couple of quotes from previous m156 owners who now own m157 engined cars

Have you driven a 5.5 Biturbo car? Think you will be surprised at how different the engine feels to the 6.3. Im not sure I like it as much, if I'm honest. I'm definitely missing the diff from my old car as well.

I concur with Jackwood, the 5.5 is not as good as the 6.2, particularly in terms of power delivery and throttle response. The 5.5 is still very good but if you've had the 6.2 before, you can't help but be slightly disappointed. The noise in the 5.5 is extraordinary but not as visceral as the 6.2, tunnels just aren't the same.


Interesting.......

 

[developer]

I'm only a recent M156 owner, and can't speak about the M157, however, despite it's large capacity the M156 is like a two stroke - you have to get it to rev - certainly in 525ps E Class form.

It rumbles up to 2000rpm, growls up to 5000rpm and then BOOOM, all the noise around you transfers to the rear exhaust and it's off like a scalded cat to it's 7250rpm redline.

This is exactly why I like it.

I'd expect a better mid-range with the 5.5, and greater tuning capability.

Either way, I don't think a buyer will be short changed .

ps - they sound like Pistonheads quotes?

 

[The _Don]

Hi yes from a pistonheads thread.

 

[c_200k]

Well i'v got a W211 E63 and had a W212 E63 5.5tt earlier this week so from my limited experiance as it was only 2 day's i had the car and wanted to get the feel overall.

Engine wise the 5.5tt has much more instant power than the 6.2 v8, i love the blip on upshifts and rev match on downshifts. I nearly dropped one the first time i floored it on the ramp joining the motorway.

In AMG mode i find the car a bit on an animal but it sounds amazing, the throttle response is very sensitive and the ride obviously is a bit harsh but nothing i couldn't handle.

Speaking to one of the guys i was dealing with in Mercedes, it's engineered to makes the noise unlike the M156 which is more natural.

Hope that's what you were asking, overall i loved the car and i could live with it. The one i had didn't have distronic or dynamic seats which i missed.

Really want to try the one Developer215 has as i really like the M156 engine and the upgrades the W212 has.

 

[The _Don]

More in favour of the m156


Seems we're not the only ones to lament the throttle response of the new 5.5:

'Although to be superseded by the M157 5.5 L V8 BiTurbo (see below) for full-sized models such as the S-Class, the M156 will remain in production as its more precise throttle response is still well suited to smaller sportier models such as the C-Class.' (Wikipedia - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-AMG).

If you've driven both, it's extremely clear that the new engine is not as exciting as the 6.2 and while I love the rumble at lower engine speeds, the top end lacks the drama of the old engine.

As someone else said, this is more about alleged efficiency (I find the difference very small actually) and emissions rather than creating a superior engine. The 5.5 might be more powerful but it's less enjoyable.

 

[developer]

i love the blip on upshifts and rev match on downshifts.

I understand the blips but what do you mean by rev match on downshift.

 

[c_200k]

I understand the blips but what do you mean by rev match on downshift.

Probably my wording but it's like dabbing the throttle to match the rev's when dropping a gear

Does your's do the blip when going up gears?

 

[developer]

Yes, provided you're in Sport+ or manual.

 

[c_200k]

I really need to test a 212 6.2 V8

Yes i was in S+

Did you understand what i mean with teh rev match or have i confused the situation even more

 

[The _Don]

The below from a c63 bs owner


Yep - I've had mine for a year, and absolutely love it. It actually put the final nail in the coffin for my 599! Found myself always going for the Merc key rather than the Ferrari, it really is that good. I drove a std C63 before I ordered mine, and found it a bit 'soft' and went for the Black Series 'blind', but have no regrets. Turning the first stage traction off means it will tail hang without too much interruption and Sports+ makes it ever so responsive. The gearbox is so intuitive I rarely use manual. I've been to Germany a couple of times and not quite maxed it on the autobahns - but very close to the limited 186mph! Mine has done 7500 miles now and the average fuel consumption is 18.5 mpg - not reset since day 1
Have managed average of 26 once - and also seen 8.5 !
The only cars that I've drive recently that are better were a 458 and an F12; it's that good!
Graham

 

[The _Don]

Last 25th of August, I attended my first trackday here where I live in Northeast Brasil, I had high expectations on my new 2013 C63 AMG SEDAN, however reading a few threads here, I realized that I was probably going to face limp mode on the track.
That said I went 2 days before the trackday to my dealer and explained to them that I had read here o the PL about the limp mode issues on my car on the track. They made un update on the car which was supposed to raise the temperature level in which the limp mode would come on!!!
I went to the track 2 days after, and I have to say I was very disappointed. It was my first time on the track, and I really needed some laps to get used to right lines and just have a few fast laps to really push the car and myself, however after only 2 or 3 hard laps my car would reach 142 degrees Celsius and would enter limp mode sometimes on the straight line just before I was closing a fast lap. That really disappointed me and I had to come in to the Pits and wait for half an hour or more for the temp to come down and allow me to go for 2 or 3 more laps. The track temp was very hot around 40 degrees celcius, but I was just amazed along with my friends at how little time I had on the track with my car. In total I made 20 laps around the course during the whole day, and believe me, I wanted to do more laps!!!!
The day after the track day, I just felt like selling the car, I really intend on using it for track days, and I sincerely felt that I had to do serious mods for the car to handle and perform the way I wanted. I went to the dealer, and they talked to Mercedes which advised us to buy an original AMG cooling system for the transmission which would resolve the matter. Here in Brasil this cooling system is way overpriced costing around US$ 7.000, that made me even more irritated with the ordeal and I started looking for other cars in the brand that would suit my needs.
I starting looking into the SLS and the C63 Black Series and started shopping for both, giving my car as part of payment. I managed to trade in for a C63 AMG Black Series in Fire Opal Red, and I have to say that driving it around that streets it feels like a whole different car!!! It handles and is so well poised on it's chassis that I wonder how they managed to develop this car, I can't wait to take it to the track, and I wanted to hear about experiences from other C63 Black owner's if the car goes into limp mode on track? Which tire pressure they use on track? and overall impressions and tips on how to extract fast lap time whit it, I would greatly appreciate the help as I love MB AMG's and want to take them to the top on the track here.
If someone had come up to me and told me how much better the Black Series is over a regular AMG, I would say that was impossible, but now that I received this beast, I know that "once you go balk, you never go back".
Best regards,
Ricardo

 

[GMW]

Having driven the C63 before the new M157 is a torque monster! I've already gotten all 4 wheels to spin in the rain...in an ML! Lol!! Different engines but for the ML the M157 is more suited. The M156 was a perfect fit to the C63! At the end of the day they are different animals but I must say that I'm enjoying this PP equipped ML63 very much.

 

[B27il]

M157 torque is just like a tidal wave
You have to ride M157 + tune, then compare it to the M156

 

[c_200k]

M157 torque is just like a tidal wave
You have to ride M157 + tune, then compare it to the M156

I agree the torque is just there and loads of it iswell.

I scared the Mrs a peach whilst joining the motorway, she didn't know what happened lol.

 

[acej]

Having had a c63 and now the new sl63 I can only really comment on the noise. Low down the c63 is better under full chat the sl63 wins.

The cars are so different in power and torque I cant really compare the engines over 120bhp and nearer 200 on the torque difference The SL is so much quicker passed 50 and just doesn't stop pulling till the limiter kicks in at 161mph. my torque curve is flat from 2000 rpm right to the upper revs and range sitting at 620!

Still love them both though

 

[moff]

I've driven the new E63 and loved it.

I didn't really notice any delay with throttle response until I got back into my C63 and it's not really any issue IMO and something that you easily get used to.

The noise is different, I don't the M157 think it sounds as good as the M156.

But I would take the M157 over the M156 for the 10% saving in fuel

I think the new 4.0 V8 will be amazing albeit I am worried about the lack of aural delight!

Any engine that can return an average 25mpg-30mpg for 450bhp+ is an absolute winnder for me.

 

[The _Don]

From jack wood on piston heads.



I was actually thinking about this the other day. We've done 10,000 miles in 8 months in our 2013 E63. Like Mosdef, I've not bonded with it in the same way I did the C63.
I also cannot believe there is no diff on the standard car. I asked Chris Harris what the car would be like without a diff and he said something along the lines of "undriveable". He was right.
Unlike the OP I would have to disagree with its ability to get it's power down. It struggles for traction a lot of the time. Even in 3rd and 4th, though very rarely does it flash the TC warning light at you even though I know power is being cut to the driven wheels. This is something I have noticed more frequently with modern cars; they are increasingly using the electronics to limit torque in certain scenarios. For example you don't get full power if you mash the pedal at a junction with lock applied. You don't get any TC flash or anything, but you don't get full power either. After driving the car for some time you get the feeling that the power output is constantly being decided not by you the driver, but by the electronics. It's left me feeling a bit cold towards the car.

Regarding the build quality: I'll take my 100% reliable C63 (70k miles) and E63 (10k so far) with decent interior over the absolute abortion of a car that was my AudiB7 RS4 Avant. That car was by far the most unreliable, atrociously engineered car I have ever owned. And I used to have an MGF....
I will never buy another VAG product as long as I live (ok, maybe another Porsche or two). Audi might make what some people consider nice feeling interiors (I don't like them personally) but their engineering is seriously lacking in my experience.

And yes, after the peach of an engine in the C63 the E63 does feel a bit laggy.

Jack

 

[BenzedUP]

I like the engine in the SLS, feels way different to the engine in the C63 I drove the other day...

do they share the same engine?

 

[The _Don]

I like the engine in the SLS, feels way different to the engine in the C63 I drove the other day... do they share the same engine?

Yes, known as the m159 with the following upgrades.

It is a version used in Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG. Compared to the standard AMG engine, the SLS's engine includes an all-new intake system, reworked valve train and camshafts, the use of flow-optimised tubular steel headers and dethrottling of the exhaust system. The engine also utilizes a dry-sump lubrication system to lower the center of gravity of the car

 

[def90cars]

Yes, known as the m159 with the following upgrades.

It is a version used in Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG. Compared to the standard AMG engine, the SLS's engine includes an all-new intake system, reworked valve train and camshafts, the use of flow-optimised tubular steel headers and dethrottling of the exhaust system. The engine also utilizes a dry-sump lubrication system to lower the center of gravity of the car

M159 is also used in the V8 Supercars in Australia - but with a lower capacity.