Oh really ? - New Fines for Motorists

[flango]

I'd put money on it that the middle laners "doing 70" and suggesting that no one can legally overtake them are in reality hovering around an *indicated* 70 and are actually travelling between 62 and 65 mph true speed

They create a rolling road block forcing all but heavy goods into lane 3 and effectively reducing a 3 lane carriageway into single lane.

I spent last week driving through France and the motorway lane discipline was so much improved over what we have in the UK.

I also think that the rules they have preventing HGVs from overtaking apart from in designated and signed sections makes a great deal of sense. So often our uk motorways have lanes 1 and 2 dominated by trucks crawling past each other at a snails pace.

I totally agree with this lane discipline in France and Germany is much better in the UK but at certain times they also regulate HGV to lane 1 only, this is something we rarely do except on the A42 and A1 I think this should become a more wide spread practice and lets get the traffic flowing again.

Talking last night to my mate who's a traffic cop and he was saying 2 flaws with the new laws traffic cops spend 90% of their time OFF motorways. Motorways are too heavily congested to spot offenders unless they are blatant on an empty motorway or tailgaters and using the phone. The central lane occupiers club will be very difficult to police.

 

[davidjpowell]

on the A42 and A1 .

Even there they ignore it.

 

[trapperjohn]

I totally agree with this lane discipline in France and Germany is much better in the UK but at certain times they also regulate HGV to lane 1 only, this is something we rarely do except on the A42 and A1 I think this should become a more wide spread practice and lets get the traffic flowing again.

Talking last night to my mate who's a traffic cop and he was saying 2 flaws with the new laws traffic cops spend 90% of their time OFF motorways. Motorways are too heavily congested to spot offenders unless they are blatant on an empty motorway or tailgaters and using the phone. The central lane occupiers club will be very difficult to police.

As someone said on TV the other night. Possible Advanced Drivers spokesperson.

"For on the spot fines you need on the spot Bobbies" (Sorry if its been quoted before)

 

[Charles Morgan]

On a seriously congested road all of this is moot, but I have driven extensively on quite empty motorways in the last month and if there are Traffic Police around it wouldn't take them 5 minutes to find numerous examples.

As has been observed above though, if there aren't the Bobbies, there can be no enforcement - hence the omnipresent phone to ear.

Talking of cops, anyone seen or heard anything from Job-Black-Rat? I hear since moving on from traffic, he's hit the doughnuts hard...

 

[Sp!ke]

I saw 4 of the 5 lane stretch of the M25 I was on today full of HGV's driving side by side within 1mph of each other.

 

[Springbok]

I'd put money on it that the middle laners "doing 70" and suggesting that no one can legally overtake them are in reality hovering around an *indicated* 70 and are actually travelling between 62 and 65 mph true speed

They create a rolling road block forcing all but heavy goods into lane 3 and effectively reducing a 3 lane carriageway into single lane.

I spent last week driving through France and the motorway lane discipline was so much improved over what we have in the UK.

I also think that the rules they have preventing HGVs from overtaking apart from in designated and signed sections makes a great deal of sense. So often our uk motorways have lanes 1 and 2 dominated by trucks crawling past each other at a snails pace.

I use to travel from Devon to Scotland and back every weekend for months ( in a Punto ) and once I compared the Indicated ( 70 ) to the display on the GPS ( 64 ), I had to up my speed just to keep up with the rest of inside and middle lane. When I tried the same with the CLK, 70 was 70, exactly.


Is it an urban myth that you have a leeway of 10% + 3mph over the limit (80) before the police start paying attention? For those not fortunate enough to have a Merc, that would be an indicated 86 . Keep the roads rolling.

 

[Stratman]

It's a myth. Speedometers don't have a plus-or-minus tolerance, just a 'plus'. They are allowed to over-read by 3 mph under 30 and by 10% over 30. They may not under-read at all. If you get pulled over for doing over seventy, your speedo will have been showing over seventy without doubt.

The police may well not bother stopping cars doing less than eighty, but that's for entirely different reasons

 

[flango]

Speedo accuracy also changes with tyre wear, 8mm tread to start with on new tyres, 2mm when you bin them, you can do the maths on the difference in rolling diameters.

Strangely enough on new tyres my CLK is spot on 80 mph = 80 mph GPS at 80 mph the Volvo overeads by 3 mph exactly the same as SWMBO Volvo does, coincidence or manufacturer tolerances

 

[trapperjohn]

Tolerances and a supplier that gets it "bob on" every time.

 

[Dryce]

Tolerances and a supplier that gets it "bob on" every time.

To provide a digital readout - apart from the tyres - there isn't anything that could differetiate the car manufacturers other than policy. Digital speed sensors are the norm - little black boxes do the math - and it's that math that is subject to policy.

Analogue dials may be subject to some variation in how a driver reads them due to layout, markings, needle thickness, and anngle of view.

 

[E55BOF]

"Is it an urban myth that you have a leeway of 10% + 3mph over the limit (80) before the police start paying attention?"

No, it's not a myth, but it has nothing to do with speedo accuracy. The Association of Chief Police Officers guideline is to permit a car to be doing no more than 10% of the limit, +3, mph over the limit before an officer will consider stopping you for speeding. Of course, if you are committing another offence your speed may not be relevant.

Most, but not all, forces follow the ACPO guidelines. Speed cameras may not...

Personally, I tend to cruise at no more than 75 mph (always in the outer or middle lane unless there's a reason to move over...); I used to go everywhere at 85, but old age/common sense have mellowed me. My last speeding fine was in 1987.

E55BOF

(My views may annoy you; I may consider you need to be annoyed...)

 

[Sp!ke]

So you are self confessed middle/outer lane hog?

You need educating with some £100 tickets perhaps. Is that your registration number in your signature?

 

[BTB 500]

The Association of Chief Police Officers guideline is to permit a car to be doing no more than 10% of the limit, +3, mph over the limit before an officer will consider stopping you for speeding.

The ACPO guidelines have recommended thresholds for issue of FPN and Summons. FPN is speed limit+10%+2mph, so 79 mph (not 80) when a 70 limit applies. 96 mph will get you a summons.

Road Traffic Offences: Guidance on Fixed Penalty Notices

As an aside, the other (less well known) ACPO guidline is to offer a speed awareness course as an alternative to a FPN at up to speed limit+10%+9mph (so 86 mph on a motorway). You only get this chance once per three year period though.

 

[Clkrichard]

So an empty lane one and common sense and considerate driving arent good enough reasons for you to abandon lanes two or three ?
Why would you do that ? You are proud of being a bad inconsiderate driver or you just want to pay one of the new fines ?
No wonder this is being introduced !

 

[sjmaxwell]

I suppose its undue care and attention

 

[E55BOF]

Oh dear oh dear oh dear! If you read my first post carefully, you will discover I said no such thing. One thing I can say is that I don't hold any of you - or anyone else - up unless it is inevitable because I too am held up.

Consider, if you will, the nature and purpose of the Highway Code. (If you won't, enjoy your closed mind, and stop reading now). Is it mediaeval Holy Writ, to be blindly obeyed absolutely at all times in all conditions? Or is it, perhaps, a set of commonsense provisions to enable us all to make progress as best we can on the road? If no-one is prevented from doing so, and no hazard occurs, where is the problem? I take the view that "because the law says so" is not always on its own an adequate reason for doing or not doing something. A little thought will reveal that any law is there for a reason; usually to prevent something with harmful consequences occurring, or possibly occurring, and THAT is surely what matters? Give me credit for a coherent philosophy, please.

I might sometimes go through red traffic lights as well, where the sight lines are such that I can be absolutely certain that there is no risk to anyone. (I wouldn't do this where there are cameras or police cars, obviously; not because it would be dangerous, but because I'd get done...).

No, my user name is not my registration; I have an E55, and I'm a B.O.F.

 

[Stratman]

Beware of going through red lights when you think there's no-one else about. Just because you haven't noticed the cyclist with no lights and an all black goth outfit doesn't mean they're not there. Many decades ago when I were a young lad, I was driving through Romford town centre at youth o'clock in the middle of the night. As I approached pedestrian controlled lights, with not a soul to be seen, they turned red. I naturally stopped, because we shouldn't pick and choose which laws we obey, and after they turned green and I pulled away I was lit up by the blue lights of a police car.

"Why did you stop at those lights? There was no-one about"

"Because I could see you lot around the corner in the reflection in a shop window, and assumed it was you who changed the lights"

"Be on your way sonny"

 

[guydewdney]

You got pulled for obeying the 'law'? wow - how bored were they?

 

[Charles Morgan]

I just despair of driving today.

As I set off at the tail end of rush hour, at a two lane into one section merge in turn just after a junction, I found the cars in front had stopped, leaving me blocking the junction (no yellow box), so I pulled over into the empty lane and cleared it.

The Micra behind me blocked the junction (despite there being enough room behind me in the lane i had just pulled into ) , and then as I tried to rejoin the merged lane by merging in turn (I had got in front of a car that was there before me so let him pass to regain his place) the Micra driver refused to allow me in, hooting and gesticulating when I positioned my car to do so. This time however, I refused to back down and boy did the hoodied lout hate that. There was immense anger on his face as he turned off all of a moment later.

As society gets ever more selfish, and the number of narcissists seems to rise exponentially, I can't see these measures having any meaningful effect.

 

[Stratman]

You got pulled for obeying the 'law'? wow - how bored were they?

Better than that, they changed the lights when they saw me approach, hoping I'd go through them as it was about 2 am and were looking for an easy 'nick'.