Petrol to go up 4ppl?

[steve333]

There won't be a swing, I don't think... Diesel cars are much sought after because of popular misconception that they are cheaper to run.

But in fact most people will not get up to the annual mileage required to break-even considering the higher purchase cost (and the higher repair bills if the car is out of warranty).

Given that now around half of all new cars sold are diesel, and most cost their owners more that equivalent petrol-engined cars over the course of ownership, there is no reason to assume that further increase in the cost of fuel will change people's mind.

Ad long as the mpg figures will be better than petrol people will keep buying diesels regardless of other costs.

Not the case if your coming from a petrol v8 into a diesel v6

 

[crockers]

If manufacturers moved away from this stupid mpg calculation and moved to a simple mpl then the cost of running a diesel v petrol car would be far simpler.

 

[st4]

There won't be a swing, I don't think... Diesel cars are much sought after because of popular misconception that they are cheaper to run.

But in fact most people will not get up to the annual mileage required to break-even considering the higher purchase cost (and the higher repair bills if the car is out of warranty - not to mention DPF issues on low-mileage cars).

Given that now around half of all new cars sold are diesel, and most cost their owners more than equivalent petrol-engined cars over the course of ownership, there is no reason to assume that further increase in the cost of fuel will change people's mind.

As long as diesel mpg figures will be better than petrol people will keep buying diesels regardless of overall costs.

Good post Mark. Do consider newer downsized petrols carry turbos, direct injection and can give issues. Recent 4pot petrol BMWs come to mind.

If cars are to get more complex and unreliable, you might as well get one that's lighter on fuel.

In prestige cars there seems little price difference on petrol vs diesel, lower down the food chain I'll accept your point but petrol vs diesel new prices in BMW and Mercedes ranges there's little in it

 

[Mercator]

We tend to notice fuel costs as many of us have to fill up and get our wallet out to do so at least once a week.

Depreciation is less noticable but I was struck by the fact that over 10 years and 150k miles from new my S210 cost me more in depreciation than it did in fuel costs.

Anyway I regard the freedom to drive 500 miles without toll for about £100 of fuel as excellent value.

 

[grober]

There won't be a swing, I don't think... Diesel cars are much sought after because of popular misconception that they are cheaper to run.

But in fact most people will not get up to the annual mileage required to break-even considering the higher purchase cost (and the higher repair bills if the car is out of warranty - not to mention DPF issues on low-mileage cars).

Given that now around half of all new cars sold are diesel, and most cost their owners more than equivalent petrol-engined cars over the course of ownership, there is no reason to assume that further increase in the cost of fuel will change people's mind.

As long as diesel mpg figures will be better than petrol people will keep buying diesels regardless of overall costs.

The irony is that because the public still regard diesels as more economic they retain higher resale values and thus lower rates of depreciation? So they might still turn out to be a better buy although based on a misconception.

 

[grober]

So I gather the tax on diesel is higher than on petrol - hence the price differential. If not then why is diesel cheaper than petrol in most other countries. At 9p a litre and the new very economical petrol engines emerging I can see a swing towards petrol again.

Has anyone driven an Ampera ?

Crockers poses an interesting question. At around £37,000 less the £5,000 grant for a fairly average family car Ampera are not going to littering the streets just yet. As such, like LPG, they don't present a significant "fiscal tax challenge" ------ yet. Get enough "plug in" electric cars on the road and the government will have to work out how to tax em to regain lost revenue. And then there will extra load demanded of the UK generating capacity to consider also. Gone will be the 13 amp plug setup to be replaced by special timed fixed offpeak charging points where the electricity will be "taxed appropriately" would be my guess.

 

[joecash]

the frightening thing is that governments of all colours (well the naughty civil servants who actually pull the strings) want more and more of our cash to fritter away on pointless exercises and their inflated salaries and pensions. Of course they are frightened to death of oil running out as they havent managed to con us into road charging so far. Unlike petrol and diesel you cant "dye" electricity.well not yet anyway! and how wouldthey justify the u turn from zero road tax on electrical vehicles to at least £2,000 a year for the smallest and heaven knows how much for the larger vehicles

 

[wemorgan]

Crockers poses an interesting question. At around £37,000 less the £5,000 grant for a fairly average family car Ampera are not going to littering the streets just yet. As such, like LPG, they don't present a significant "fiscal tax challenge" ------ yet. Get enough "plug in" electric cars on the road and the government will have to work out how to tax em to regain lost revenue. And then there will extra load demanded of the UK generating capacity to consider also. Gone will be the 13 amp plug setup to be replaced by special timed fixed offpeak charging points where the electricity will be "taxed appropriately" would be my guess.

Which raises the wider point of the cost of energy. Electricity and diesel cost roughly the same @ £0.15/kWhr. But flying is still too cheap relative to the cost of travel by car.

 

[st4]

Which raises the wider point of the cost of energy. Electricity and diesel cost roughly the same @ £0.15/kWhr. But flying is still too cheap relative to the cost of travel by car.

But you are grouping a whole load of people into one aircraft to share the cost of fuel?

You flew from London to Glasgow and it cost say £50 return...

If you put 4 people into a car and drove it for £200 there and back, it would cost the same per head. Fly a whole family or group and the costs may swing back into the cars favour?

 

[markjay]

Electric cars remove the source of pollution from city centres to the power plants and this by itself is a good reason why their use should be encouraged beyond any cost considerations.

 

[wemorgan]

But you are grouping a whole load of people into one aircraft to share the cost of fuel?

You flew from London to Glasgow and it cost say £50 return...

If you put 4 people into a car and drove it for £200 there and back, it would cost the same per head. Fly a whole family or group and the costs may swing back into the cars favour?

Sorry, my figure was not so clear. I meant £0.15/kWhr per passenger. Flying on a per passenger basis is still cheaper from my calculations.

 

[Dieselman]

Regarding petrol and diesel car running costs, diesel is still cheaper cost per mile.

What interests me is that since diesel is cheaper to refine and store than petrol, why is the pump price higher?
Surely winter oil usage is a known quantity, so the supply should be raised accordingly, so why raise the price?

 

[markjay]

Regarding petrol and diesel car running costs, diesel is still cheaper cost per mile...

Running cost per mile and overall cost of ownership are not the same.

The overall cost of ownership takes depreciation into account, though the way depreciation affects the final figure is not straightforward as pointed-out by others (Mercator and grober).

And more importantly, a new or nearly new car will be affected by depreciation considerably more than an older - or very old/cheap car.

So when looking for the most economical purchase, the cost of fuel and other running costs are only one part of the equation.

 

[Dieselman]

Running cost per mile and overall cost of ownership are not the same.

Of course they are. Total costs, including depreciation against mileage.

 

[mercgames]

Petrol and Diesel Prices 7th Jan 2013 House of Commons Library

www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn04712.pdf

 

[steve333]

Regarding petrol and diesel car running costs, diesel is still cheaper cost per mile.

What interests me is that since diesel is cheaper to refine and store than petrol, why is the pump price higher?
Surely winter oil usage is a known quantity, so the supply should be raised accordingly, so why raise the price?

^ Only a guess but perhaps it's because the suppliers know there are more diesels on our roads these days & theres a chance for them to cash in

 

[grober]

Electric cars remove the source of pollution from city centres to the power plants and this by itself is a good reason why their use should be encouraged beyond any cost considerations.

Agreed but government "concern for the environment" may take a bit of a back seat if faced with falling taxation revenues on fossil fuels.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Petrol and Diesel Prices 7th Jan 2013 House of Commons Library

www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn04712.pdf

All fascinating stuff and recommended reading for everyone before making further comments.

What did it tell me?
1) Thinking back to the start of my motoring life when I was paying just over 5p a litre for petrol wasn't so wonderful after all because in real terms that's about 90p (although still better than what I'm paying now).

2) Prices in the rest of Europe are generally catching up with us, expecially diesel.

3) UK motor fuel usage has been dropping since 2007 (diesel and petrol)

4) Diesel became more popular than petrol in 2005. In the early 1970s petrol consumption was three times greater than diesel.

5) I have to pay what I have to pay. When it becomes too expensive for me I'll walk even more.

 

[1945wickedred]

I heard somewhere that it is the dealers that are pushing the price up,buying up the reserves,nice chaps these city dealers they caused all the problems of the present.

 

[st4]

5) I have to pay what I have to pay. When it becomes too expensive for me I'll walk even more.

From a 3500cc petrol V6 automatic saloon you've plenty of room to downsize engine size to a car thats more economical....

The C220cdi model is very good