Re-Map or Tuning Box!

[KeithJG]

Well...after all this time i have decided on a tuning box and then go to a re-map...

At the moment am going for the re-map but a more expensive one including an RR as i want to try and make sure the power between 50 and 75mph on the road is kept.....what has been holding me up in my mind is the thought of losing the overtaking acceleration between these speeds as it is quite something else. I am wondering what extra i can expect for about the £400 mark?....if anything!

 

[merc85]

AMD thurrock should be able to do this keith

 

[KeithJG]

AMD thurrock should be able to do this keith

Hi Gav...this is what i have read about and nearer for me just over the Thames but although the bhp increase is a mere 30bhp so are most boxes if one can use that particular mode.

So the motor on a dyno seems better to me so i can at least see what is happening...

Also AMD right next to IKEA so maybe some furniture as well...Lol

Hope your Christmas went well?....

Keith

 

[brough]

There is no such thing as a free lunch. I have often thought there must be some trade off for the extra power and economy that these remaps give, otherwise, why do the manufacturers not set the cars up with these "improvements" from the start and boast about the power and economy of there vehicles?.

 

[Ricky16]

There is no such thing as a free lunch. I have often thought there must be some trade off for the extra power and economy that these remaps give, otherwise, why do the manufacturers not set the cars up with these "improvements" from the start and boast about the power and economy of there vehicles?.

Because they wouldn't be able to sell you different models ie on the c63 they have 3 all with different bhp and a major increase in price there quite clever really these mercedes dealers

 

[KeithJG]

There is no such thing as a free lunch. I have often thought there must be some trade off for the extra power and economy that these remaps give, otherwise, why do the manufacturers not set the cars up with these "improvements" from the start and boast about the power and economy of there vehicles?.

This is the reason:

Quote:
You may be surprised to learn that all modern engines are restricted to operate underpowered due to a wide range of variables taken into consideration by the vehicle manufacturers themselves. Modern engines are restricted in order to accommodate some of the following factors:
Global variants in fuel quality
Climate
Air quality (inc altitude)
Regional emissions regulation
Significantly variable driving environments
These significant variables are taken into consideration when an engine program is written. Since engine programs are written for global use, the margins for every combination of variable are excessive

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[sjmaxwell]

One of the reasons Eurocharged wanted to know what fuel I used so they could map it accordingly

 

[doughboy]

One of the reasons Eurocharged wanted to know what fuel I used so they could map it accordingly

Not really, just so they could load up their off the shelf "super unleaded" map that's all.

99% of maps are generic pre-developed ones. Even the big boys like DMS and Evolve and AmD/REVO all just load up standard maps. A few places like them may actually develop their own maps, but many just buy them in. Even with rolling road sessions they don't change anything unless you are paying £££ for a bespoke custom map, ok they might tweak an AFR target or something basic.

My brother works in the industry, in the motorsport side of it too, and it's all smoke and mirrors. don't believe the hype. Circa £400 gets you bog standard off the shelf.

The less reputable firms just buy the maps from abroad and load them up like they load an app from itunes, with no knowledge of what they are doing. I've heard tales of bricked ECUs, cars pushed down the road and owners told to "call the AA".

DMS wanted £2500 to map my E63 TT, that was a full day inc RR, and still only a tweaked generic map. You think you get a bespoke map for £250??

 

[sjmaxwell]

Not really, just so they could load up their off the shelf "super unleaded" map that's all. 99% of maps are generic pre-developed ones. Even the big boys like DMS and Evolve and AmD/REVO all just load up standard maps. Even with rolling road sessions they don't change anything unless you are paying £££ for a bespoke custom map, ok they might tweak an AFR target or something basic. My brother works in the industry, in the motorsport side of it too, and it's all smoke and mirrors. don't believe the hype. Circa £400 gets you bog standard off the shelf. The less reputable firms just buy the maps from abroad and load them up like they load an app from itunes, with no knowledge of what they are doing. I've heard tales of bricked ECUs, cars pushed down the road and owners told to "call the AA". DMS wanted £2500 to map my E63 TT, that was a full day inc RR, and still only a tweaked generic map. You think you get bespoke for £250??

No I didn't pay £250 but then I don't know who you are and I don't think you know me either to make such a sweeping statement but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt in case you didn't mean the statement to sound that rude!

 

[flango]

Not really, just so they could load up their off the shelf "super unleaded" map that's all. 99% of maps are generic pre-developed ones. Even the big boys like DMS and Evolve and AmD/REVO all just load up standard maps. A few places like them may actually develop their own maps, but many just buy them in. Even with rolling road sessions they don't change anything unless you are paying £££ for a bespoke custom map, ok they might tweak an AFR target or something basic. My brother works in the industry, in the motorsport side of it too, and it's all smoke and mirrors. don't believe the hype. Circa £400 gets you bog standard off the shelf. The less reputable firms just buy the maps from abroad and load them up like they load an app from itunes, with no knowledge of what they are doing. I've heard tales of bricked ECUs, cars pushed down the road and owners told to "call the AA". DMS wanted £2500 to map my E63 TT, that was a full day inc RR, and still only a tweaked generic map. You think you get a bespoke map for £250??

A man that speaks sense on remaps all the above is true unless you are paying big bucks for dynamic on road mapping most are generic or tweaked maps that just remove or adjust some of the safer parameters as said if anyone says they are developing maps for your car it's all BS full remaps to Motorsport level can only be done dynamically the rest are generic or semi generic

 

[doughboy]

sjmaxwell, Sorry, not meant to be to you bud, only the first line about the super unleaded was a reply to you, I should have made that clear, apologies.

The rest was general comment to all about maps being thought of as bespoke, when more often than not they are just as generic as tuning boxes (and not removable at home)

 

[Red C220]

A man that speaks sense on remaps all the above is true unless you are paying big bucks for dynamic on road mapping most are generic or tweaked maps that just remove or adjust some of the safer parameters as said if anyone says they are developing maps for your car it's all BS full remaps to Motorsport level can only be done dynamically the rest are generic or semi generic

Even knowing this, is a £400 remap still worthwhile if you accept that it's off the shelf and is simply altering generic parameters and that it won't be as effective as a £2500 bespoke remap?

Lets say I chose to remap my car an E220 cdi, I imagine the difference between £400 and £2500 on that car is marginal compared to what would be done on an E63 AMG?

 

[KeithJG]

My brother works in the industry, in the motorsport side of it too, and it's all smoke and mirrors. don't believe the hype. Circa £400 gets you bog standard off the shelf.

So then the Tuning Box and ECU Tuning are the same!

I think these recent statements cannot do the re-map business any good......i can get an ECU re-map done for £200 .......also a tuning box with 3 modes on it but probably only the 1st one will work properly cos of limp mode for £289 and £389...........or i can go to AMD and get an ECU re-map for £499 including the rollers........

But they are all the same!

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[Lee C63]

So then the Tuning Box and ECU Tuning are the same!

I think these recent statements cannot do the re-map business any good......i can get an ECU re-map done for £200 .......also a tuning box with 3 modes on it but probably only the 1st one will work properly cos of limp mode for £289 and £389...........or i can go to AMD and get an ECU re-map for £499 including the rollers........

But they are all the same!

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Like previously stated pretty much generic. However, its more to do with the aftercare / customer support you get with the higher end ones.
For Example a Eurocharged map gets you free upgrades as it is improved or adjusted. (Think its currently version 5 for a C63). And if your ECU is locked by Joe blogs mobile mapping service i doubt he will be willing to help with sorting the issue.
I have seen the tuning boxes in action on a TT E63 and there was varying power / Torque delivery on the rolling road depending on which mode was selected.

 

[sjmaxwell]

Like previously stated pretty much generic. However, its more to do with the aftercare / customer support you get with the higher end ones.
For Example a Eurocharged map gets you free upgrades as it is improved or adjusted. (Think its currently version 5 for a C63). And if your ECU is locked by Joe blogs mobile mapping service i doubt he will be willing to help with sorting the issue.
I have seen the tuning boxes in action on a TT E63 and there was varying power / Torque delivery on the rolling road depending on which mode was selected.

The other aspect of using a company like Eurocharged as happened to me on my CLK55 is that if one map doesn't quite deliver the results the comapny can contact the software writer (Richard in Texas) who can tweek it!

 

[KeithJG]

So after all this chit chat about re-maps i do believe it is not worth the effort ....how often can one use the power?.......so i will spend the £500 on something else....for me not the car.

Don`t mind spending money, but don`t like wasting it on something that is more expensive just because the wool is pulled over my eyes!...

Thanks for all your help.

 

[flango]

Even knowing this, is a £400 remap still worthwhile if you accept that it's off the shelf and is simply altering generic parameters and that it won't be as effective as a £2500 bespoke remap? Lets say I chose to remap my car an E220 cdi, I imagine the difference between £400 and £2500 on that car is marginal compared to what would be done on an E63 AMG?

At the end of the day you are paying for time. The cost of generic maps is peanuts. To take a standard map and tweak it to remove fuel maps you will never use adjust boost pressures and fuel tables has been done by mappers thousands of times over and yes it does make a difference and you will get more power

The question is how much are you prepared to pay and what risk are you willing to take?

All my cars are mapped the most expensive was the Volvo at £500 but that was the only way of maintaining the warranty. The W208 was an ECU out job and solder in a new chip £190, Subaru was mapped by Prodrive as a favour, BMW M3 was mapped by Reigal Motorsport £250, remember these are mates rates except the Volvo

FWIW IMHO for an after market remap I would not pay more than£250 as the difference between that and a £500 one is unnoticeable For a manufacturer remap like polestar to retain warranty £500 is the most I would go As has already been said beware the smoke and mirrors and marketing BS

 

[Mat B]

All depends what you want from you car and how much you use it.
Personally i think its worth the money. This gives a lot more versatility than a standard one and as for this off the shelf comments I think it's all been taken out of context.
There's a reason why all the top companies are using a eurocharged map.

 

[E270 Owner]

Diesels generally benefit the most from low cost generic remapping @ £250, there's usually 3 modes.

Economy
Eco/power
Power

The reason results are more dramatic with diesels is the Turbo and fuel parameters can be tweaked to produce more power but a decent mapper will have to play with smoke limiters and injection cycles etc etc to make a good generic map.

Some people will complain a map is bad and cry about it all over different forums but not let on their car has 100,000 miles on it and never had the turbo or injectors changed.
I use trusted generic maps, if I don't have one I upload the oem file to the mapping company they send the new file (usually an hour) then remap the vehicle but only if the car is free of fault codes (engine related).
I only do mapping for my regular customers and never for Mr VW Golf with reversed baseball cap and boot space converted to a speaker cabinet (no offense to anyone resembling that remark) but I have plenty of those come to me and I flatly refuse to entertain them from the get go.

As far as petrol tuning goes gains can be made elsewhere before remapping.

If you have the $£$£$£$£$£$£$£$ it will be taken from you smoke and mirrors or not in these performance related matters.

 

[Red C220]

At the end of the day you are paying for time. The cost of generic maps is peanuts. To take a standard map and tweak it to remove fuel maps you will never use adjust boost pressures and fuel tables has been done by mappers thousands of times over and yes it does make a difference and you will get more power

The question is how much are you prepared to pay and what risk are you willing to take?

All my cars are mapped the most expensive was the Volvo at £500 but that was the only way of maintaining the warranty. The W208 was an ECU out job and solder in a new chip £190, Subaru was mapped by Prodrive as a favour, BMW M3 was mapped by Reigal Motorsport £250, remember these are mates rates except the Volvo

FWIW IMHO for an after market remap I would not pay more than£250 as the difference between that and a £500 one is unnoticeable For a manufacturer remap like polestar to retain warranty £500 is the most I would go As has already been said beware the smoke and mirrors and marketing BS

So all things in the above post considered. I assume someone not in the know can't get a decent £250 remap? Or have I misunderstood your reply?

Where would a forum member living in Surrey take their E220 CDI for a remap to bring it up to E250 CDI specification looking mainly for a good compromise of eco/power.

The only area of the E220 CDI I find lacking is mid range overtaking, it's quite flat from 50-70 or 60-80. If that could be improved with gains in economy I'd be interested.

The most convenient for me seems to be Rebellion who seem to be supported by PCS, both respected forum members.

I'd prefer not to trapse up to the Midlands for a remap if I can get a good product and service more locally.

I'm also not looking to wring every last ounce of power out of it. I'd like a decent compromise that removes some of the restriction placed on a 220.

Now having owned the car for 4000 miles, I realise I should have bought an E350, but our financial circumstances changed between order and delivery so whilst an E350 would be financially comfortable now - it wasn't at time of order.

I don't feel in the slightest that the E220 is in any way underpowdered it's very comfortable and quite easy to lose your licence in. The 350 would just have been more suited to the car.