Sl60

[talbir]

Setanta...am I right in saying that your S600 has 362bhp and 530nm torque? If so coupled with the 200-300kg extra weight the SL60 should be noticeably quicker than the S600? The SL60 has minimum 381bhp and 580nm torque with some owners reporting up to 411bhp and not sure about unnofficial torque figures. Therefore if you felt the SL60 wasn't much quicker if anything then it must be down on power I would suggest.

The Dyno session on Friday morning will show this I guess so will keep you all posted.

The w140 v12 S600 has 394bhp, 418 without cats.

Depends on options on the car, but i think the weight penalty is more like 100-200kg rather than 2-300kg...the r129 is a very heavy car especially with the additional strengthening that convertibles have...

talbir

 

[talbir]

Talbir...I have not looked at the engine management modules. Where are they and are they easy to get to in order to have a look?

The modules are in the big black box at the back of the engine bay, on the RHS as you stand in front of the engine. There will be 4 modules in there :

Ground
ASR/ABS
EGAS (throttle)
LH (fuel)

And possibly a fifth for transmission if it is 5 spd ?

The LH module should be marked with HWA part number. This is the key item as it is modified to deliver the extra fuel to feed the big bore block. A rising rate fuel pressure regulator is a better option as programmed modules simply enrichen the mixture across the board, whereas RRFPRs will tailor to needs.


talbir

 

[EDZ649]

Congrats on the new purchase, I'm sure you will be very happy with it!

 

[Setanta]

The w140 v12 S600 has 394bhp, 418 without cats.

Depends on options on the car, but i think the weight penalty is more like 100-200kg rather than 2-300kg...the r129 is a very heavy car especially with the additional strengthening that convertibles have...

talbir

Mine is a W220 so less power than the W140 series one but then lighter AFAIK. As with anything, what something feels like is often different to what it is actually doing.

The SL60 was a lot of (great!) noise, good kickdown and a fair shove in the back. The S600 is a lot quieter and feels more floaty and the power delivery is more 'revvy' is that makes sense. But I did not (and do not) do a standing start in either car - when at 40 or so and nailing it, both were quick.

The only thing for it is a R129 SL500, R129 SL60, W140 S600 and W220 S600...*ahem* test

 

[Setanta]

Setanta...am I right in saying that your S600 has 362bhp and 530nm torque? If so coupled with the 200-300kg extra weight the SL60 should be noticeably quicker than the S600? The SL60 has minimum 381bhp and 580nm torque with some owners reporting up to 411bhp and not sure about unnofficial torque figures. Therefore if you felt the SL60 wasn't much quicker if anything then it must be down on power I would suggest.

The Dyno session on Friday morning will show this I guess so will keep you all posted.

That sound about right, but the W220 is lighter than a W140 and R129 if I recall correctly. The R129 is built like a tank so not sure what the power/weight ratio of the cars is.

It all depends on how they are being driven I suppose - you probably did the same route I did (out of his place, turn left and some nice straights and windy bits). When the accelerator was planted when moving (past the 'detent' at the end of the accelerator travel) they both took off very rapidly.

When yours is up and running, happy to meet up and we can compare.

 

[IanA2]

If it's only pulling away gradually from a 5.0 M119 car, then something is wrong.

talbir

Deffo...

 

[BlackC55]

Congrats on the purchase. I will be contacting you soon. Bear with me as I am snowed under.

Oh and BTW the exhaust was a SL60 item. Very elaborate and very different to a SL500 item.

 

[Setanta]

Sounds like it is real deal!

 

[BTB 500]

Oh and BTW the exhaust was a SL60 item. Very elaborate and very different to a SL500 item.

Out of interest, what's the difference?

 

[rockits]

Thanks Oliver. Just being doing a ton of work to track down the origins of this car as the engine number is wrong on the V5. Could just be simple case that the original SL500 engine number was put down either by mistake or the new AMG unit engine number was never updated with the DVLA. I am getting closer so hopefully will have all the answers in the nest day or two.

I have all the 4 previous owners full details now so might contact the first owner as I know the address as it is 5 mins down the round from me. It is also Lennox Lewis' address so I hope he isn't at home and in a bad mood! Maybe I will just drop a letter off to see if they can contact me to shed some light.

Bill, if you go to my quick cobbled site I popped up earlier you can see some pics of the exhaust. As Oliver says it is very different and definately not a stock SL500 item. The rear box does have a MB pointed star symbol on so it looks like an MB item and not an aftermarket unit. The website is at www.sl60amg.com and I think you can just go into the SL60 album and click on each picture to see.

 

[talbir]

So the engine number on the V5 does not match the engine number of the unit in the car ?

Does that mean the engine was installed as an afterthought ?

In which case, were the engine management modules changed as well to match the 6.0 block ?

talbir

 

[rockits]

Talbir...I will check the modules hopefully today. The engine number on the Data Card glued in the back of the original Maintenance Booklet is the AMG engine number. The V5 states the car as an SL60 AMG Auto and although the engine number seems wrong the cubic is capacity is correct stating it is 5956cc. This was the original information put on all documentation and also as the car was supplied to the original 1st owner Denis Lewis.

It could be a simple admin error at the MB end but I want to confirm all this and leave no stone unturned until I know the full story. I haven't actually confirmed the actual engine number on the current engine as not sure where too look and how to find it. I am anticipating it being the AMG one though.

 

[jaymanek]

I hope its not the case that someone has changed the engine back to a standard 500... DVLA will only record the changes that the keeper records on the log book. So if the owner sent the log book back to them with a new engine number and not a new cubic capacity, they wouldnt have changed it.

If you do a good HPI check, it should tell you when any details such as engine number was changed.

If the correct engine number is on the data card, which is what would have been used when originally registering the car, then its not looking good.

All that said... id say thats what happened is that it was originally supplied as a 500SL with AMG kit and then the engine was added later.

 

[rockits]

The wrong engine number was originally on the Tax Disc application form(I have a copy of the original) and it seems the DVLA have never been made aware of the correct engine number from day one. Seems more like a simple admin error to me as the car is straight/genuine and checks out fine. The HPI check shows the same incorrect engnine number but then it would as this data would be sourced from the same sources and show the same information as the DVLA holds.

The AMG engine was definately added day one. All SL60's are built as an SL500 day one from the MB factory without bumpers and side mouldings. They are then sent to be converted I am reliably informed.

 

[BTB 500]

Bill, if you go to my quick cobbled site I popped up earlier you can see some pics of the exhaust. As Oliver says it is very different and definately not a stock SL500 item. The rear box does have a MB pointed star symbol on so it looks like an MB item and not an aftermarket unit.

Looking at upside-down pictures gives me a headache!

But I think it looks like a standard exhaust system, where the centre muffler has been replaced with stainless steel pipe. That tubing is a different colour, and looks newer than the rest of the system to me.

I'm more than happy to be corrected if wrong, but I wasn't aware that the stock SL60 exhaust was significantly different to the SL500 one.

Replacing the centre muffler with stainless steel pipe is a cheap and fairly common mod. to get more noise and a slight power increase. I've had it done on my SL500.

 

[Rob77]

The AMG engine was definately added day one.

I think I must be losing the plot here. How do you know which is the right and which the wrong engine number and when the current engine was installed? Did you check the number that's actually on the engine yet and does it tie up with either the data card or the DVLA records?

 

[IanA2]

Numbers right or wrong or whatever.....the biggest mystery to me is the performance.

 

[rockits]

I am have been speaking to Mercedes CAC who now will speak to me as the confirmed genuine owner so we are making progress. Their technical people are quite intrigued by this as well so are interested to help to get to the bottom of it all.

I am just sending over further requested info and some pictures. They are also going to confirm the location of the engine number so I can confirm this for fact as everything is all going by admin and papaerwork so far which may be incorrect.

 

[talbir]

I don't know for sure on engine number, but i cannot see why it would change during the conversion. AMG used the same M119 block - all that's done is the bore out to 6l and 5.6 M117 modified crankshaft fitment. Unless they had pre-built blocks that they simply swapped in during the conversion, but given these were done to order, why would they have pre-built sitting around ?

I'd check the engine number on the block itself - if it matches that on the V5, you're in a good starting point. Then check the LH module. Even if it is a 6.0 M119, if the LH module is not the HWA part no item, it will chuck out circa 330bhp, not the circa 400bhp one might expect. Equally, if it is the HWA module but a 5.0 block, it will still only chuck out 330bhp. Verifying the displacement of the engine can be done though even if the numbers/documents get you nowhere. Just need to measure up the pistons, but hopefully you don't need to go that far !

But given AMG's official response that you earlier posted in this thread, where they confirmed it was purely wheels and bodykit, would it be a total surprise if it's not an 6.0 m119 engine ?




talbir

 

[rockits]

Talbir....it wouldn't be a total suprise as I have a bad feeling about this at the moment. I have uploaded a few more pics to www.sl60amg.com that shows some new info. I have removed the engine management cover and can see no reference to the HWA part codes you mention. The pics are up there to see.

Someone somewhere at MB must know something as if it was supplied as an SL500 with AMG styling and wheels but the DVLA were told it was an SL60 AMG with a 5956cc engine who told them? Who put the SL60 AMG badges on? Did the original owner Denis Lewis buy it as an SL500 with AMG styling and wheels or should it have been an SL60 AMG? Is it an SL60 AMG or not? Many questions and many answers still to be found out about!!