The EV fact thread

[MikeInWimbledon]

I was just doing the same thing - with the same car - but you beat me to it! Great minds

Great cars ! I gave my son the 2 litre Zetec as his first car. He needed the bigger engine to drive five six footers away for Sports weekends.

He swopped it for an E90 BMW 318i when he graduated. To this day we both say it was a shame to have sold the Focus.

 

[Bellow]

Heavy fuel tank. Slow to fill. Things the LPG sceptics said....

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I thought brake disks etc. lasted practically forever on an EV with regen braking? Particularly one used predominantly for short/local/low speed trips? Because of the limited range even when new many of these cars will have done little mileage e.g. the 44k on the 2010(?) example in the video.

I don't think I've ever replaced front dampers on any car (I've had several that have gone well over 150k miles). And I can't see that the 12V battery on an EV would lead a very hard life - presumably it just runs the on-board electronics.

??

You’re right.

 

[BTB 500]

I gave my son the 2 litre Zetec as his first car.

Lucky him, but most youngsters can't afford to insure a 2 litre as their first car. A small 1.2 / 1.3 hatchback is more normal, to start building some NCD. That's one reason why they're always in demand, and I would assume small/cheap EV equivalents to be similar.

 

[BTB 500]

You’re right.

Sometimes. But seriously, I understood that one of the big selling points of EVs was extremely low maintenance compared to ICE ... with that and low mileage costs offsetting the higher purchase price.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Lucky him, but most youngsters can't afford to insure a 2 litre as their first car. A small 1.2 / 1.3 hatchback is more normal, to start building some NCD. That's one reason why they're always in demand, and I would assume small/cheap EV equivalents to be similar.

No luck about it. Pure calculation. The insurance on the 2 litre was about the same as the 1.6 zetec. It helped that he was in Exeter, aka the back of beyond.

He had to drive half a tonne of rowers and their kit from Exeter to Nottingham, Dorney and Henley, so he needed the power.

And, of course, they shared the petrol on those trips, so it was crazy cheap motoring for him.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Sometimes. But seriously, I understood that one of the big selling points of EVs was extremely low maintenance compared to ICE ... with that and low mileage costs offsetting the higher purchase price.

Exactly. Just £11k for a 2020 MG SUV EV or its petrol equivalent.

But the EV can cost as little as 3p a mile, if you can charge overnight, although it can be as much as 20p a mile if you use a supermarket charger.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Note that 12v batteries can need replacement on EV's, as they run the consumer electrics. They maybe shouldn't, but some do need it.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Sometimes. But seriously, I understood that one of the big selling points of EVs was extremely low maintenance compared to ICE ... with that and low mileage costs offsetting the higher purchase price.

There is less maintenance in the sense that there is no oil & filter or spark plug change required for the engine, and brakes last longer but still wear out.

The transmission will still need an oil change,with less fluid than an auto, but most cheap small cars are manual, so in reality it’s an extra cost.

Otherwise they need all of the same repairs and maintenance as any ICE car. It’s not the cost of an oil and plug change that really scraps ICE cars.

Like ICE, an EV service is mostly visual and safety checks. They also require cabin filters and brake fluid changes just like an ICE too.

It’s when repairs and maintenance fall due - or become critical - at the same time which is what takes cars of the road.

Even if a EV needs brake replacement less often, at some point they will need to be replaced if other faults/accidents haven’t already sealed it’s fate.

 

[BTB 500]

There is less maintenance in the sense that there is no oil & filter or spark plug change required for the engine, and brakes last longer but still wear out.

The transmission will still need an oil change,with less fluid than an auto, but most cheap small cars are manual, so in reality it’s an extra cost.

I may be wrong but I thought small EVs just had simple reduction gearing (typically 'sealed for life') between motor and wheels - no transmission in the conventional sense.

 

[BTB 500]

Note that 12v batteries can need replacement on EV's, as they run the consumer electrics. They maybe shouldn't, but some do need it.

If they used a smaller Li Ion pack to run the 12V systems that should surely last just as long as the main battery? Or even longer, as it would never be subject to heavy discharge or rapid charging

 

[Bellow]

I may be wrong but I thought small EVs just had simple reduction gearing (typically 'sealed for life') between motor and wheels - no transmission in the conventional sense.

It is a 'transmission' though - just not a multi-ratio one. Though that will likely change. Irrespective, it's for the OEM to decide whether it should have an oil change interval or filled for life. Usually, the diff is incorporated within the large driven gear so very very similar to any other differential - and heavily loaded too.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I may be wrong but I thought small EVs just had simple reduction gearing (typically 'sealed for life') between motor and wheels - no transmission in the conventional sense.

There’s no multi-speed gearbox as such, the transmission is a step down gear. A rare exception is the Taycan which has a two-speed gearbox.

They are described as sealed for life by the manufacturer - just like ICE manufacturers (including Mercedes) have described their conventional automatic transmissions as being sealed for life - but just like ICE, EV specialists recommend servicing them because the oil degrades over time with use.

Despite what many people think, EVs are just cars. The differences in engineering, service and use aren’t that different.

 

[Dryce]

It is a 'transmission' though - just not a multi-ratio one. Though that will likely change. Irrespective, it's for the OEM to decide whether it should have an oil change interval or filled for life. Usually, the diff is incorporated within the large driven gear so very very similar to any other differential - and heavily loaded too.

There may be more than one motor. Presumably the Tesla models with dual motors have no central differential. And if there are quad motor AWD EVs with independent drive to each wheel then they won't need front and rear axle differentials?

 

[BTB 500]

Despite what many people think, EVs are just cars. The differences in engineering, service and use aren’t that different.

I certainly had the impression (likely from posts in this thread) that a significant advantage of EVs over ICE was substantially lower servicing and maintenance costs. If that's not the case then I'm another innocent victim of pro-EV propaganda

 

[whitenemesis]

Note that 12v batteries can need replacement on EV's, as they run the consumer electrics. They maybe shouldn't, but some do need it.

In a Lexus BEV or hybrid the 12v battery only monitors the access system and powers up the computers. Once the car is in a Ready state everything is powered by the traction battery. I have no worries using all the comfort systems, like heated seats, heated steering wheel, heated rear window and mirrors, etc.. If I did that in my CLS55 the car would shut stuff down as the battery couldn't cope.

 

[Dryce]

I certainly had the impression (likely from posts in this thread) that a significant advantage of EVs over ICE was substantially lower servicing and maintenance costs. If that's not the case then I'm another innocent victim of pro-EV propaganda

If a car manufacture traditionally takes a component and marks it up (electronic black box, plastic trim, headlight, pump) so that it is expensive in the ICE world - then it's unlikely that the pricing culture and strategy will change much when it comes to the EV world.

 

[BTB 500]

If a car manufacture traditionally takes a component and marks it up (electronic black box, plastic trim, headlight, pump) so that it is expensive in the ICE world - then it's unlikely that the pricing culture and strategy will change much when it comes to the EV world.

Yup, my understanding though is that EVs are physically simpler beasts so there's (a) less to go wrong and (b) less that needs routine servicing. But this might just be pro-EV spin that I've been exposed to

 

[davymead]

Whether some backwards people like it or not EVs are here to stay. Thankfully.

Tut Tut, insults do your personal EV crusade no favours.
My small interjection was merely a personal insight into the view of many others that I speak to about whether they would buy any EV. Maybe, just maybe your ideas on EV sales don’t necessarily follow the current sales figures.

 

[clk320x]

Tut Tut, insults do your personal EV crusade no favours.
My small interjection was merely a personal insight into the view of many others that I speak to about whether they would buy any EV. Maybe, just maybe your ideas on EV sales don’t necessarily follow the current sales figures.

‘Tut tut’ in no way was that aimed at yourself or an attempt at an insult lol…

But - I note how you have nothing to say to the rest of the post… hence I rest my case.