The EV fact thread

[MikeInWimbledon]

I thought that (almost) all EVs did? I.e. needed to have their 12V battery topped up if the car wasn't being driven for a period of time?
My Hyundai has a 12v Lead Acid battery, without which the car won't start up.
If the battery is allowed to discharge, the car will need to be 'jump started' (albeit from any 12v source, not necessarily a car battery).
The longest I've had the car sitting idle was 4 weeks (in Switzerland), and the battery was fine, but that was after a long drive to get there, so the battery would have been fully charged to begin with.

For sure. The gist of what I'm being told is that the owner couldn't leave it two weeks without a trickle charge, and that a flat 12v results in a significant garage call out cost.
So the i-pace is being used as a driveway ornament because it can't be trusted.
A quick google reports that this is a common grudge amongst Ipace owners.
OK, these are not "mechanically sympathetic" people, but their irritation and despondence is significant.
They're financially astute but won't lease another EV, irregardless of the huge company tax break.

 

[markjay]

For sure. The gist of what I'm being told is that the owner couldn't leave it two weeks without a trickle charge, and that a flat 12v results in a significant garage call out cost.
So the i-pace is being used as a driveway ornament because it can't be trusted.
A quick google reports that this is a common grudge amongst Ipace owners.
OK, these are not "mechanically sympathetic" people, but their irritation and despondence is significant.
They're financially astute but won't lease another EV, irregardless of the huge company tax break.

This could also happen if the car isn't being driven enough (e.g. only used for occasional short trips).

On my car, if it wasn't driven for a couple of weeks, it disconnects the comms (the 4g modem) and there's a message on the app on my phone that says that remote access has been disabled to save battery life.

But obviously it's also possible that there's a specific issue with the i-pace (e.g. parasitic drain, or the battery capacity is too low, etc).

BTW the factory Lead Acid battery can be easily replaced with a high-capacity Li-ion battery, but this may obviously affect the warranty.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

This could also happen if the car isn't being driven enough (e.g. only used for occasional short trips).

On my car, if it wasn't driven for a couple of weeks, it disconnects the comms (the 4g modem) and there's a message on the app on my phone that says that remote access has been disabled to save battery life.

But obviously it's also possible that there's a specific issue with the i-pace (e.g. parasitic drain, or the battery capacity is too low, etc).

BTW the factory Lead Acid battery can be easily replaced with a high-capacity Li-ion battery, but this may obviously affect the warranty.

Understood, but not good if owners who don’t use a car for a couple of weeks return to find that it’s become a paperweight that needs a garage call out.

These aren’t particularly car savvy people but they have gone through the whole process with bothe the main dealer and the user groups. This is not unfamiliar territory for anyone who has a dozen or more motors tucked away, but they’re just using three.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I know quite a few people with iPace but I haven’t heard this issue, although I doubt many leave the car unused often or for long.

Does leaving the car hooked up on the main charging cable also top up the 12v battery, or do you need to charge it separately?

Two weeks is a unacceptably short, but I suspect many modern ICE cars will not like to stand for more than three weeks.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I know quite a few people with iPace but I haven’t heard this issue, although I doubt many leave the car unused often or for long.
Does leaving the car hooked up on the main charging cable also top up the 12v battery, or do you need to charge it separately?
Two weeks is a unacceptably short, but I suspect many modern ICE cars will not like to stand for more than three weeks.

Don't know the answer specifically for the I-Pace but I know that for other EV's, such as the Niro, conventional charging doesn't charge the 12v, and owners start whinging after a couple of years that the 12v doesn't hold the charge.
The big issue for my friend with the I-Pace, is that it's a garage call out to wake the thing up, whereas two months left on its own for an MX5 or R230 is just a quick CTEK connect.

 

[markjay]

If it's a garage call out, then it's certainly a design fault.

On the Hyundai, if the car is dead, then you can unlock it with the blade key, pop up the bonnet, and the battery is right in front of you.

Possibly the i-pace has no means of opening the car's doors without power?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

If it's a garage call out, then it's certainly a design fault.

On the Hyundai, if the car is dead, then you can unlock it with the blade key, pop up the bonnet, and the battery is right in front of you.

Possibly the i-pace has no means of opening the car's doors without power?

Yes, the doors and bonnet can be opened without power. I don’t know why they can’t simply CTEK it.

Bottom line: they hate it and want it gone ASAP. I suspect that you and I would just fix it through new batteries and occasional charging. But then I’m someone who doesn’t replace 10 year old ICE batteries because “mine don’t fail.” Not everyone’s of the same mindset

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

As I’ve suggested before, the core issue of EVs is not that they can’t do 500 miles without a 30 minute top up. For the moment it’s how they drive and the whole UX.

 

[markjay]

As I’ve suggested before, the core issue of EVs is not that they can’t do 500 miles without a 30 minute top up. For the moment it’s how they drive and the whole UX.

I can't comment about EVs in general, but certainly my IONIQ 5 reminds me of the Prius I rented last year - efficient, relaxing, and.... bland.

I'd happily drive my EV to Switzerland and back again, but am I delighted at the thought of driving to the shops in the car? No. I was, with the W203 and the W204.....

 

[clk320x]

I know quite a few people with iPace but I haven’t heard this issue, although I doubt many leave the car unused often or for long.

Does leaving the car hooked up on the main charging cable also top up the 12v battery, or do you need to charge it separately?

Two weeks is an unacceptably short, but I suspect many modern ICE cars will not like to stand for more than three weeks.

On my car the 12V is topped up by the HV as and when needed, we left it parked at a family members house near Heathrow at 75% and got back to it at around 68/69% IIRC - 3 weeks later…

 

[BTB 500]

BTW the factory Lead Acid battery can be easily replaced with a high-capacity Li-ion battery, but this may obviously affect the warranty.

If the car is designed to charge lead/acid it won't safely charge a Li battery. So if this is a legit upgrade there would be more to it than swapping the battery.

 

[BTB 500]

On my car the 12V is topped up by the HV as and when needed

Yup that's the obvious way to do it - the amount of power consumed from a huge drive battery will be pretty insignificant.

 

[philnewmerc]

On my car the 12V is topped up by the HV as and when needed, we left it parked at a family members house near Heathrow at 75% and got back to it at around 68/69% IIRC - 3 weeks later…

My brain doesn't understand why that is not standard on any EV - there must be a reason??

 

[markjay]

Yup that's the obvious way to do it - the amount of power consumed from a huge drive battery will be pretty insignificant.

The IONIQ 5 (and I believe also Teslas) only charges the 12v battery when the 'ignition' is on (or, rather, when the car is powered up).

Topping up the 12v battery from the HV battery as needed sounds like a good idea in principle. My guess is that with the Hyundai/Kia E-GMP platform (that the IONIQ 5 is built on) the HV battery is completely isolated once the car is switched off (possibly for safety reasons?), and so 12v charging while the car is parked up is not possible.

BTW, the car has 'Camping Mode', if you activate it then the car will continue to charge the 12v battery while switched off, this is to allow you to use the 12v socket while camping (or while otherwise stopped for a long period) without having to keep the car switched on (not to be confused with the V2G feature). But if you simply switch off the car, lock it and walk away, then the 12v battery will not be charged.

 

[markjay]

If the car is designed to charge lead/acid it won't safely charge a Li battery. So if this is a legit upgrade there would be more to it than swapping the battery.

This is a common upgrade in the US (based on the IONIQ 5 forum that I am a member of), so I imagine it comes as a kit that includes all the necessary bits. It's irrelevant to me, though, (a) because I had no issues with the 12v battery, and (b) because the car is on a lease and so modding it isn't a good idea.....

 

[markjay]

On my car the 12V is topped up by the HV as and when needed, we left it parked at a family members house near Heathrow at 75% and got back to it at around 68/69% IIRC - 3 weeks later…

Interestingly, my car showed the exact same battery charge percentage after 4 weeks, suggesting that the loss was minimal (within the 1%). But, ultimately, all these figures come from the car's computer, so who knows if they are actually accurate....

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The big issue for my friend with the I-Pace, is that it's a garage call out to wake the thing up, whereas two months left on its own for an MX5 or R230 is just a quick CTEK connect.

Perhaps the 12v battery on the iPace is a lithium battery. When the voltage drops beyond a certain threshold then a lithium battery is usually isolated by the battery management system to prevent - or at least reduce the potential for - further voltage drop which would damage the battery.

They don’t like low voltages and it can cause permanent damage - they are very expensive too. The only way to charge them is to reset the battery management system, and I would imagine that this would require the use of a diagnostics tool - the equivalent of STAR - as is the case with a Mercedes.

 

[markjay]

As can be seen in the photo in the article linked below, for all its hi-tech kit, the IONIQ 5 has a traditional Lead Acid 12v battery, that (thankfully) is easily accessible under the bonnet:

https://insideevs.com/news/658984/hyundai-finds-causes-for-ioniq-5-12v-battery-drain-reveals-fixes/

Also, some users fitted a battery monitor to alert them when the 12v battery charge goes down while the car is parked up:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[philnewmerc]

Why can't the LI main battery top up the 12v battery (until it has say 10% life left) ?

 

[markjay]

Why can't the LI main battery top up the 12v battery (until it has say 10% life left) ?

This is my guess:

Topping up the 12v battery from the HV battery as needed sounds like a good idea in principle. My guess is that with the Hyundai/Kia E-GMP platform (that the IONIQ 5 is built on) the HV battery is completely isolated once the car is switched off (possibly for safety reasons?), and so 12v charging while the car is parked up is not possible.