The EV fact thread

[clk320x]

Thank heavens that EV's will be no longer exempt from London's congestion charges from January 2026

At last we can make some real progress on reducing congestion in London, and force workers back on to the bicycles, buses, and trains where they belong.

End to zero-emission discount in London’s congestion zones

This has been mentioned for years. Just got to take advantage of the financial benefits before they end.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

This has been mentioned for years. Just got to take advantage of the financial benefits before they end.

But who drives into the congestion zone anyway?

I live six miles away from the zone and I think I've driven into the congestion zone five times in the last 21 years.

The important thing here is that the councils are dumping the CO2 / EV rhetoric,

and moving to charging workers for simple "congestion" / crowding.

Because that's the only way that workers will be forced onto inconvenient and expensive public transport.

 

[markjay]

But who drives into the congestion zone anyway?

I live six miles away from the zone and I think I've driven into the congestion zone five times in the last 21 years.

I live one mile from the Congestion Zone and, like you, rarely drive there, but central London is gridlocked most times and so evidently many people do drive into the Zone.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I live one mile from the Congestion Zone and, like you, rarely drive there, but central London is gridlocked most times and so evidently many people do drive into the Zone.

Precisely.

Lots of extra tax revenue from EV's for that hard-working Mayor.

Those votes don't pay for themselves, do they?

The more we apply greenwashed taxes onto the working class, the more taxes will be raised to subsidise those loss-making empty buses.

TfL set for £742m loss thanks to bus subsidies

Tube passengers will generate a bumper £823 million “profit” for Transport for London due to the annual hike in Travelcard prices, it was revealed today.

www.standard.co.uk

London buses: 12 million miles cut since 2016, data shows

A Lib Dems report also shows that TfL's fleet has been cut by 11% since Sadiq Khan became mayor.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[clk320x]

But who drives into the congestion zone anyway?

I live six miles away from the zone and I think I've driven into the congestion zone five times in the last 21 years.

The important thing here is that the councils are dumping the CO2 / EV rhetoric,

and moving to charging workers for simple "congestion" / crowding.

Because that's the only way that workers will be forced onto inconvenient and expensive public transport.

I drive to London Bridge a few times a week, it’s easier than using the tube. I’d still do it with the CCZ charge, but not having it was a good whilst it lasted. I only have a year or so left once it ends before I move to the UAE anyway (all going to plan)…

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I drive to London Bridge a few times a week, it’s easier than using the tube. I’d still do it with the CCZ charge, but not having it was a good whilst it lasted. I only have a year or so left once it ends before I move to the UAE anyway (all going to plan

Exactly.

The important thing is that councils are dumping the CO2 / EV rhetoric, and moving to charging workers for "congestion" / crowding.

Because that's the only way that Londoners will be forced onto £3,000 a year (after tax) travel cards, in addition to the high cost of owning a car for weekend use.

 

[clk320x]

Exactly.

The important thing is that councils are dumping the CO2 / EV rhetoric, and moving to charging workers for "congestion" / crowding.

Because that's the only way that Londoners will be forced onto £3,000 a year (after tax) travel cards, in addition to the high cost of owning a car.

Well the Londoners voted him in again. I wouldn’t be surprised if he increases the CCZ to £20 soon.

 

[markjay]

....I only have a year or so left once it ends before I move to the UAE anyway (all going to plan)…

Ooo nice... do tell

 

[KillerHERTZ]

Spotted these today.

Wow. £160k new and after only 3 & half years £40k...!


When they hit £25k around Xmas I'd actually be tempted...

 

[SmartAmg]

View attachment 158629

Spotted these today.

Wow. £160k new and after only 3/4 years £40k...!


When they hit £25k around Xmas I'd actually be tempted...

Bargain for the used buyer, then.

 

[Ted]

View attachment 158629

Spotted these today.

Wow. £160k new and after only 3 & half years £40k...!


When they hit £25k around Xmas I'd actually be tempted...

Bargain indeed.
And the dealers will presumably be making a decent wedge.
If the heater problem is sorted there must be a lot of people tempted, they’re lovely cars. (Imho of course)

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

View attachment 158629

Spotted these today.

Wow. £160k new and after only 3 & half years £40k...!


When they hit £25k around Xmas I'd actually be tempted...

It was the Turbo S that was £160k new, not the cooking bitter £80k 4S version.

Agreed, now that the Taycan Turbos can be bought for just over £60k - outside the dealer network - that's ridiculous tear-jerking Mercedes S63 ICE coupe depreciation

However, as the journo's said at the time, the Turbo is a waste of space. Cooking bitter Taycans at £42k, like the one you posted, are more than enough fun with 0-62 in 4 seconds, at £40k - just under half their £80k new price just four years ago.

Taycans are so much prettier than the Panamera, of course. The hybrid Panamera was £120k back in 2020 and it too has lost £60k or half its value in just four years - typically after just 20k miles.

New cars: isn't it great that company tax breaks make them so cheap to lease in the UK. Well, at least until the new Government gets its feet under the table. It's astonishing just how much more expensive luxury cars are in Ireland and mainland Europe.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

View attachment 158629

Spotted these today.

Wow. £160k new and after only 3 & half years £40k...!


When they hit £25k around Xmas I'd actually be tempted...

I haven’t checked specs but those examples are more likely to have been £80-90k than £160k when new, and so they’re probably being advertised at around 50% of their new list price at 3.5 or 4 years old.

That doesn’t sound too bad at all. Before the market went into overdrive I bought several Mercedes ICE models at 50% of their new list price after 1.5 or 2 years - expensive cars depreciate quickly.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Bargain indeed.
And the dealers will presumably be making a decent wedge.
If the heater problem is sorted there must be a lot of people tempted, they’re lovely cars. (Imho of course)

I had a sniff around this earlier in the year. I'd heard that it was a "parts problem" in getting new heaters, which would clear itself post-Covid supply chain problems. But that seems to have been spin. "Allegedly," there had been an overheating issue for a cable which had caused some dealers to set the heater to half power, to avoid a safety risk. Allegedly a safety recall eventually resulted in parts being replaced, at Porsche expense, so that heaters could work correctly.

Might well be a people living in genuinely cold countries, but not so much the UK

Some recent discussion of this from Spring '24 here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Taycan/comments/1dabu7m/2021_porsche_taycan_maintenance_and_known_issues/

All this is just hearsay. A Taycan owner on here will probably know chapter and verse.

 

[190]

There is no doubt that the cost of used EV's has dropped substantially. I'm coming up to 10 years ownership of my W204 and have started to actively think about what next. I'm thinking smaller next time as I may be driving it when I'm 80 so there are some easy comparisons to be made between an EV and a petrol for example ID3 vs Golf or A3 or A class. The conclusion I've come too so far is the EV price has to drop right down to the level of an equivalent petrol for it to be an economic option as the fuel savings for my low annual miles has to overcome the increased cost of EV insurance and likely further steep depreciation. EV Insurance quotes I've obtained are a minimum 40 - 50% higher than a petrol and I'm thinking insurance won't get any cheaper as I get nearer 80. If that isn't enough I'm just not inspired by what's available. The ID3 should have been optimal but the interior looks cheap and there is a dire lack of physical buttons for every day operations. It's looking like another petrol at the moment.

 

[philnewmerc]

Exactly.

The important thing is that councils are dumping the CO2 / EV rhetoric, and moving to charging workers for "congestion" / crowding.

Because that's the only way that Londoners will be forced onto £3,000 a year (after tax) travel cards, in addition to the high cost of owning a car for weekend use.

I don't wish to sound like the sort of person who would superglue his face to the road, but I cycle and walk for nearly every journey (except when I'm going off for hols or heading down south in which case I'm in the '55') and when cycling round all the 2 ton, 2 metre long metal boxes, usually filled with one person, it does look like madness to me, especially in London. I think what happens is anyone who has a car (even if they bought it with the intention of only using it for longer journeys) always seem to look out the window and think to themselves 'hmmmm, I'm paying all this cost to own the thing, why shouldn't I drive to the shops/school/cinema/etc'.

 

[markjay]

There is no doubt that the cost of used EV's has dropped substantially. I'm coming up to 10 years ownership of my W204 and have started to actively think about what next. I'm thinking smaller next time as I may be driving it when I'm 80 so there are some easy comparisons to be made between an EV and a petrol for example ID3 vs Golf or A3 or A class. The conclusion I've come too so far is the EV price has to drop right down to the level of an equivalent petrol for it to be an economic option as the fuel savings for my low annual miles has to overcome the increased cost of EV insurance and likely further steep depreciation. EV Insurance quotes I've obtained are a minimum 40 - 50% higher than a petrol and I'm thinking insurance won't get any cheaper as I get nearer 80. If that isn't enough I'm just not inspired by what's available. The ID3 should have been optimal but the interior looks cheap and there is a dire lack of physical buttons for every day operations. It's looking like another petrol at the moment.

If your annual mileage is low, then a small petrol car makes perfect sense, because even with the cheapest electricity that you can get, the actual annual saving in pounds and pennies will be a relatively small amount (and obviously if you charge from expensive street chargers then there will be no saving at all).

That been said, unfortunately I forsee more and more draconian and punitive measures imposed on ICE cars as time goes by, and in this respect an EV will have an element of future-proofing against future government's trying to bring about the demise of ICE cars sooner that it would normally take.

On another note, I have both an EV and an ICE car, and I'm not sure that the statement that EVs are more expensive to insure - what is this based on? I am not saying that this is not the case, just tgat this wasn't my experience.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I don't wish to sound like the sort of person who would superglue his face to the road, but I cycle and walk for nearly every journey (except when I'm going off for hols or heading down south in which case I'm in the '55') and when cycling round all the 2 ton, 2 metre long metal boxes, usually filled with one person, it does look like madness to me, especially in London. I think what happens is anyone who has a car (even if they bought it with the intention of only using it for longer journeys) always seem to look out the window and think to themselves 'hmmmm, I'm paying all this cost to own the thing, why shouldn't I drive to the shops/school/cinema/etc'.

Exactly, which is why Councils have to force people out of their cars and into expensive, and empty, public transport.

The EV discount was just a greenwashed nudge to kick the whole process off. Towns and cities need to get people out of vehicles in town centres, and taxes are the obvious way forward. Initially on parking but increasingly through congestion charges.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

If your annual mileage is low, then a small petrol car makes perfect sense, because even with the cheapest electricity that you can get, the actual annual saving in pounds and pennies will be a relatively small amount (and obviously if you charge from expensive street chargers then there will be no saving at all).

That been said, unfortunately I forsee more and more draconian and punitive measures imposed on ICE cars as time goes by, and in this respect an EV will have an element of future-proofing against future government's trying to bring about the demise of ICE cars sooner that it would normally take.

On another note, I have both an EV and an ICE car, and I'm not sure that the statement that EVs are more expensive to insure - what is this based on? I am not saying that this is not the case, just tgat this wasn't my experience.

It's not obvious that Labour will tax EV's more heavily that ICE. It won't be popular with their supporters.

Insurance? The evidence is there for all to see. A lovely little BMW I3 is Group 30, while its Ford Focus equivalent is a Group 15. That's a huge difference for "the man on the Clapham Omnibus."

A Tesla 3 ? Group 48. Essentially the highest rate you can pay. Porsche 911 territory. Again, unaffordable for young drivers.

 

[markjay]

It's not obvious that Labour will tax EV's more heavily that ICE. It won't be popular with their supporters.

Insurance? The evidence is there for all to see. A lovely little BMW I3 is Group 30, while its Ford Focus equivalent is a Group 15. That's a huge difference for "the man on the Clapham Omnibus."

A Tesla 3 ? Group 48. Essentially the highest rate you can pay. Porsche 911 territory. Again, unaffordable for young drivers.

It's not that simple.

The insurance group for my 1.6L NA 2016 Suzuki was 10 points lower than the 2017 1.4L Turbo model that replaced it a year later. It's not easy to compare insurance groups by picking two 'similar' models.

My IONIQ 5 insurance cost the same as the Suzuki, BTW.