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The EV fact thread

SmartAmg said:
My point is I spent a while in a country that is aligning itself with Chins/Russia and their friends. But seems to have zero interest in the complete bollocks that is 'Net Zero' mantra that will impoverish us all (in the UK) , They just want bread on the table.
Click to expand...

Have to admit I agree, about EVs having anything whatsoever to do with, Climate change cobblers, they don't. But they are here, and that's it, like it or loathe it.
But why will they impoverish us all in the UK?
[/QUOTE]

I think that the post meant to say that 'net zero' in general (not EVs specifically) has cost implications to us all, from 'green' taxes, to having to buy expensive solutions in replacement of cheap ones (e.g. heat pumps instead of gas boilers). EVs are only one element of the 'net zero' ideology.

However, I find that when people use logical arguments to justify their own views, they will often pick-and-choose only those logical arguments that actually support their views. In order to get a full pictures, you need to either talk to proponents in both opposing camps, or talk to academic researchers who are trained to provide all facts, not just those that happen to agree with their theory.
 
markjay said:
Have to admit I agree, about EVs having anything whatsoever to do with, Climate change cobblers, they don't. But they are here, and that's it, like it or loathe it.
But why will they impoverish us all in the UK?
Click to expand...

I think that the post meant to say that 'net zero' in general (not EVs specifically) has cost implications to us all, from 'green' taxes, to having to buy expensive solutions in replacement of cheap ones (e.g. heat pumps instead of gas boilers). EVs are only one element of the 'net zero' ideology.

However, I find that when people use logical arguments to justify their own views, they will often pick-and-choose only those logical arguments that actually support their views. In order to get a full pictures, you need to either talk to proponents in both opposing camps, or talk to academic researchers who are trained to provide all facts, not just those that happen to agree with their theory.
[/QUOTE]

Agreed, the net zero, thingy, is more than just about EVs. And as you say, whatever they come up with, is gonna cost us. And is costing us.
I was specifically referring to EV's. As that's what Petrol Pete,
was referring to in his post. And this is the EV thread. 🙂👍
 
No disputing Li-Ion is a volatile chemistry but it's obvious that it will take something like this occurring in a built up area for that to be fully recognised.

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Just bought another EV today. 🤣 Drove 200 miles to view it (in another EV) - you’d think it would be impossible to do such journeys seeing some of these posts. 😭
 
Today I took our FIAT 500e to pick up some groceries. I rarely use it but it’s the ideal car for this trip: 25 mile round trip, destination is in a city centre, and parking in a multistory car park so neither ramps nor spaces aren’t generous.

Most importantly the car park is always very very busy, however EV charging is plentiful, right outside the M&S lift and the charging bays are extra wide, so I’ll usually pop it on charge even if it costs more than charging at home as it’s so convenient.

It’s often said that charging using a public charger is very expensive and especially if you don’t pay a monthly membership or subscription cost, and even more so when using the fastest ultra rapid chargers, so I thought I’d share the facts.

I charged using an ultra rapid 150 kW charger in a public charging station, at the full tariff rate as I do not have a membership or subscription, so this should be as expensive as it gets. Here’s what it cost and calculated cost per mile.
  • 10.6730 kWh @ £0.48 kWh = £5.12
  • Round trip average of 4.4 miles/kWh
  • Typical consumption of 4.4 to 6.6 miles/kWh
  • £0.48 kWh / 4.4 kWh = £0.109 per mile
Let’s compare that to an equivalent ICE powered car which I sometimes use on the same journey, a Smart ForFour, it’s 1.0 naturally aspirated, manual and relatively frugal. I’ve used an expected MPG based upon doing the same journey in the past.
  • 4.55 litres @ £1.339 per litre = £6.09 per gallon
  • EXPECTED Round trip average of 47 MPG
  • Typical consumption of 42 to 58 MPG
  • £6.09 / 47 miles = £0.130 per mile
So driving an ICE - even with the relatively low cost of 133.9p per litre of unleaded - costs 19.2% more than driving an equivalent EV using a public rapid chargers without a subscription or membership. In reality it costs more as I use VPower in the Smart.

That’s before factoring in the lower service and insurance costs in the FIAT, both of which are around half that of the Smart, and EV parking being free in that particular car park which today would have saved £1.80 per hour.

Some ultra rapid chargers will cost more, as will some petrol stations. However the reality isn’t anything like what some people say.
 
I saw the Dacia Spring in the flesh today, and it surprised me on two fronts.

Firstly, it's a very cute looking car and I really think that the design will be a hit. I didn't expect it to look that good.

Then, it's smaller than I thought it would be - in fact, it's probably just slightly bigger than the tiny Suzuki Ignis.

I think it will prove to be a success in Europe's larger cities where small city cars dominate the scene, and it will certainly give the cheap Chinese EVs a good run for their money.
 
Bobby Dazzler said:
Today I took our FIAT 500e to pick up some groceries. I rarely use it but it’s the ideal car for this trip: 25 mile round trip, destination is in a city centre, and parking in a multistory car park so neither ramps nor spaces aren’t generous.

Most importantly the car park is always very very busy, however EV charging is plentiful, right outside the M&S lift and the charging bays are extra wide, so I’ll usually pop it on charge even if it costs more than charging at home as it’s so convenient.

It’s often said that charging using a public charger is very expensive and especially if you don’t pay a monthly membership or subscription cost, and even more so when using the fastest ultra rapid chargers, so I thought I’d share the facts.

I charged using an ultra rapid 150 kW charger in a public charging station, at the full tariff rate as I do not have a membership or subscription, so this should be as expensive as it gets. Here’s what it cost and calculated cost per mile.
  • 10.6730 kWh @ £0.48 kWh = £5.12
  • Round trip average of 4.4 miles/kWh
  • Typical consumption of 4.4 to 6.6 miles/kWh
  • £0.48 kWh / 4.4 kWh = £0.109 per mile
Let’s compare that to an equivalent ICE powered car which I sometimes use on the same journey, a Smart ForFour, it’s 1.0 naturally aspirated, manual and relatively frugal. I’ve used an expected MPG based upon doing the same journey in the past.
  • 4.55 litres @ £1.339 per litre = £6.09 per gallon
  • EXPECTED Round trip average of 47 MPG
  • Typical consumption of 42 to 58 MPG
  • £6.09 / 47 miles = £0.130 per mile
So driving an ICE - even with the relatively low cost of 133.9p per litre of unleaded - costs 19.2% more than driving an equivalent EV using a public rapid chargers without a subscription or membership. In reality it costs more as I use VPower in the Smart.

That’s before factoring in the lower service and insurance costs in the FIAT, both of which are around half that of the Smart, and EV parking being free in that particular car park which today would have saved £1.80 per hour.

Some ultra rapid chargers will cost more, as will some petrol stations. However the reality isn’t anything like what some people say.
Click to expand...
Don’t worry, certain members will be along to dissect these figures soon. 🤣
 
Bobby Dazzler said:
I charged using an ultra rapid 150 kW charger in a public charging station, at the full tariff rate as I do not have a membership or subscription, so this should be as expensive as it gets.
Click to expand...

Not according to Zapmap, who give a UK average (not worst case) of 80p per kWh for chargers of 50 kW and above, compared to the 48p you paid for 150 kW charging.

If you use UK average prices for both EV charging (as above) and unleaded (135.21p per litre today) in your example you get 18.2p per mile for electric, and 13.1p per mile for petrol.


Bobby Dazzler said:
Some ultra rapid chargers will cost more, as will some petrol stations.
Click to expand...

The difference though is that (as above) the cost of EV charging varies much more than the cost of unleaded or diesel does.
 
BTB 500 said:
...The difference though is that (as above) the cost of EV charging varies much more than the cost of unleaded or diesel does.
Click to expand...

How very true. Which also renders many of the posts in this thread useless.......

The 'average' cost is of no interest to you as an EV driver, what matters is the cost from those particular chargers that you are likely to use.
 
markjay said:
How very true. Which also renders many of the posts in this thread useless.......

The 'average' cost is of no interest to you as an EV driver, what matters is the cost from those particular chargers that you are likely to use.
Click to expand...

Indeed. It's easy to accidentally paint a misleading picture if you happen to have access to unusually cheap ultra rapid charging (or indeed very cheap unleaded, if that is possible).

EVs have some strong points but a low 'fuel' cost per mile from public ultra rapid chargers isn't one of them.
 
BTB 500 said:
Indeed. It's easy to accidentally paint a misleading picture if you happen to have access to unusually cheap ultra rapid charging (or indeed very cheap unleaded, if that is possible).

EVs have some strong points but a low 'fuel' cost per mile from public ultra rapid chargers isn't one of them.
Click to expand...

Dunno about unleaded but even in these modern times there's still plenty of "cheap" diesel knocking about if you know where to look ......
 
BTB 500 said:
Indeed. It's easy to accidentally paint a misleading picture if you happen to have access to unusually cheap ultra rapid charging (or indeed very cheap unleaded, if that is possible).
Click to expand...
It’s not unusually cheap, that’s just the full tariff price at a Tesla Supercharger for another EV, ie not a Tesla. No discounts, no memberships, no subscriptions, full price. You can subscribe for a discounted rate but I don’t.

Wherever you see 🔴 on the map there’s a Tesla Supercharger which any EV can use. There’s not one in your town but unless you only travel West then there won’t be many long journeys you go on which won’t take you close to one.

1730679684722.png

In the same way that I choose where I buy petrol to buy the best fuel at the lowest price, I do the same with EV charging. There are literally so many that when travelling long distances you. An be choosey on which you stop at.
 
BTB 500 said:
Indeed. It's easy to accidentally paint a misleading picture if you happen to have access to unusually cheap ultra rapid charging (or indeed very cheap unleaded, if that is possible).

EVs have some strong points but a low 'fuel' cost per mile from public ultra rapid chargers isn't one of them.
Click to expand...

The issue is that most EV drivers embarking on a long journey will leave home with 100% battery, then only top-up along the route as little as needed to safely complete the journey.

The 'average' cost-per-mile is simply impossible to calculate, unless you know how much that person pays for electricity at home, how much is the cost of electricity along the route, and, crucially, how much electricity will be purchased along the route.

A use profile that sees an EV being charged solely or mostly on ultrafast charges will be very rare indeed. Unless, of course, they benfit from Mr Musk quirky marketing udeas - like a colleague at work, who got his Tesla with unlimited free electricity for life (or for as long as he has the car) - which is yet another spanner in the works for anyone trying to calculate the 'average' cost-per-mile.
 
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