The EV fact thread

[markjay]

....there were something like 40,000 electric milk floats on the roads for decades, and I never heard of any of them catching fire

Of course you didn't. Either because it doesn't happen very often... or because when it does, the tabloids don't considered it newsworthy, because its not an EV

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

63 to 88% residuals at what, ten years old? Contrast that with the residuals of the EVs coming off lease re price-follows-demand and there's something being said there.

What makes you think these quadricycles are comparable to mass produced cars that are sold with an enormous tax break for the first owner?

Ford Granadas, Mondeos and Escorts always dropped in value like a stone but did that mean that ex-Company cars were a bad second user choice?

But yes, if you make something interesting, like this £90k EV made at Hethel on Lotus underpinnings and then stop before making too many, the residuals can be interesting.

Some Tesla Roadsters sold for more than £200k during the Covid shenanigans

 

[markjay]

Interestingly, I noticed that is some parts of London, they now have a charger in front of each property, with the charger being a thin bollard that retracts back into the pavement after use.

Seems like a great solution for narrow pavements.

 

[Bellow]

What makes you think these quadricycles are comparable to mass produced cars that are sold with an enormous tax break for the first owner?

Nothing. There's a massive difference. The Twizy is actually in demand as a sensible inner city transportation proposition.

 

[TC350]

EV fires are almost exclusively a Li Ion thing - there were something like 40,000 electric milk floats on the roads for decades, and I never heard of any of them catching fire

Google milk float fire and there's lots of them. Here's what came out top when I tried it:

Firefighters called out to a fire milk float fire in Chester

FIREFIGHTERS were called out to a milk float on fire in Chester.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[SmartAmg]

Google milk float fire and there's lots of them. Here's what came out top when I tried it:

Firefighters called out to a fire milk float fire in Chester

FIREFIGHTERS were called out to a milk float on fire in Chester.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Nah, they're Milking that!

 

[BTB 500]

Google milk float fire and there's lots of them. Here's what came out top when I tried it:

Firefighters called out to a fire milk float fire in Chester

FIREFIGHTERS were called out to a milk float on fire in Chester.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Nothing to suggest that was an electric milk float though? Quite a few ICE ones around.

I was specifically talking about the old fashioned lead/acid battery ones used by urban dairies from the '30s(?) onwards.

 

[BTB 500]

Of course you didn't. Either because it doesn't happen very often... or because when it does, the tabloids don't considered it newsworthy, because its not an EV

An electric milk float isn't an EV??

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Nothing. There's a massive difference. The Twizy is actually in demand as a sensible inner city transportation proposition.

The Twizy is "in demand?"

They only sold 400 of them in the UK, and the last hundred had to be virtually given away with large discounts.

And if Twizy's were "in demand" why are most of them only doing less than 500 miles a year?

Want a sensible inner city transportation proposition? Go for something that was sold completely tax free, and can sit two plus two comfortably, with windows, heating, SatNav and cameras. A car that is compact in the City but can also take you to Cornwall without blinking.

Like a four year old MINI or BMW I3 for £14k. They're making 50,000 electric MINI's a year at Cowley, which is quite a bit more than Renault ever sold.

 

[poormansporsche]

I saw another Renault Effluent the other day, I'd completely forgotten they existed. Had to Google it the first time I saw one ......

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

How do you race hybrids?

I don’t follow BTCC so I wasn’t aware of the 330e hybrid race cars.

Simple question: how do you late brake when you don’t know how much power you have in your regenerative brakes? Or do drivers simply “know, and “sense,” how to adjust for their varying state of battery charge?

The “hive mind” will know the answer, surely?

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[SpikyMikey]

How do you race hybrids?

I don’t follow BTCC so I wasn’t aware of the 330e hybrid race cars.

Simple question: how do you late brake when you don’t know how much power you have in your regenerative brakes? Or do drivers simply “know, and “sense,” how to adjust for their varying state of battery charge?

The “hive mind” will know the answer, surely?

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Looks like it doesn't give regenerative braking; regens just top the battery back up.
How BTCC Completed Its First Hybrid Season

 

[markjay]

How do you race hybrids?

I don’t follow , I wasn’t aware of the 330e hybrid race cars.

Simple question: how do you late brake when you don’t know how much power you have in your regenerative brakes? Or do drivers simply “know, and “sense,” how to adjust for their varying state of battery charge?

The “hive mind” will know the answer, surely?

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The regenerative braking on EVs are managed by the computer, applying the mechanical brakes as needed. The level of regeneration can be set by the driver from the car's menus. This setup does not sound appropriate for racing though, and so it's sensible that a race driver will have direct manual control over the brakes, rather than leave it to the computer. Which isn't a bad thing - because if we allowed the computers more autonomy in race cars, we'll end up with driverless Teslas on FSD competing against each other.... and RC racing just doesn't attract as much interest (or advertising) as F1 does

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

The regenerative braking on EVs are managed by the computer, applying the mechanical brakes as needed. The level of regeneration can be set by the driver from the car's menus. This setup does not sound appropriate for racing though, and so it's sensible that a race driver will have direct manual control over the brakes, rather than leave it to the computer. Which isn't a bad thing - because if we allowed the computers more autonomy in race cars, we'll end up with driverless Teslas on FSD competing against each other.... and RC racing just doesn't attract as much interest (or advertising) as F1 does

So is that what BTCC drivers do when they drive their “hybrid 330e’s” ? Not use regenerative braking at all ? Or do they toggle regenerative / intense braking on and off ?

 

[Bellow]

Ask a F1 driver.

 

[Dryce]

So is that what BTCC drivers do when they drive their “hybrid 330e’s” ? Not use regenerative braking at all ? Or do they toggle regenerative / intense braking on and off ?

I would have assumed that on track and in race conditions the level of braking force being demanded most of the time the brakes are applied would exceed the bounds of the regenerative mode - in effect causing it to be bypassed.

In addition to the question as to whether the race setup involves disabling regenerative braking - maybe the other option would be to modify or reconfigure it to be able to provide more braking force and capture more energy under race conditions?

 

[Dryce]

Ask a F1 driver.

F1 systems are presumably a bit more bespoke when it comes to recovering energy in race setup.

With BTCC maybe the question should be directed to the engineers who modify and setup the cars ?

 

[SpikyMikey]

So is that what BTCC drivers do when they drive their “hybrid 330e’s” ? Not use regenerative braking at all ? Or do they toggle regenerative / intense braking on and off ?

I think you'll find the BTCC BMW 330e (and the other BTCC cars) is not a hybrid in the same sense as the road going version, only in name. As I understand it, the Cosworth system in the BTCC cars is purely a "push to boost" system and has no control over braking.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Not sure how this is going to work when everyone in this row of 25 terraced houses follow their (one so far) neighbours choice of vehicle . You see her the 'charger' box laying in the gutter a few doors down from the owners home . The other end is plugged into a socket in the open porch of the house.

Stealing the whole caboodle would take seconds . At least if it burst into flames the owners home will not be affected (only joking , EV's don't burst into flames as much as ICE cars) .

I know I'm not adding anything practical to a thread I started but this one image shows the current reality (see what I did there) of this owners EV experience , and IMHO it's not a good look.

 

[markjay]

Not sure how this is going to work when everyone in this row of 25 terraced houses follow their (one so far) neighbours choice of vehicle . You see her the 'charger' box laying in the gutter a few doors down from the owners home . The other end is plugged into a socket in the open porch of the house.

Stealing the whole caboodle would take seconds . At least if it burst into flames the owners home will not be affected (only joking , EV's don't burst into flames as much as ICE cars) .

I know I'm not adding anything practical to a thread I started but this one image shows the current reality (see what I did there) of this owners EV experience , and IMHO it's not a good look.

View attachment 163403

Yes, I've seem these around. Typically (in my area, at leat) the issue isn't shortage of public chargers, instead it's the low-tax ridiculously-cheap night tariff that tempts the penny-pitchers to do this. Electricity from public chargers can be 5 times the cost of home electricity,