The EV fact thread

[Dryce]

So sorry to break into this thread again, but I think there might actually be a fact or two in this article
I was quite taken by the chart at the end showing what was draining the battery in an EV at 70mph….

Inside the race to 5.0mpkWh: the secrets to long-range EVs | Autocar

Manufacturers are honing every detail to close in on a transformative efficiency goal

www.autocar.co.uk

I was quite taken with the 19% for HVAC .....

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

So I would say that range watching isn't only an EV thing - but it's more commonly associated with EVs because of their characteristics.

Yes, it is shocking to hear that 800,000 cars are alleged to need rescuing every year because they've run out of fuel.

If so many people really are doing that, those people really shouldn't be switching to EV until they learn to drive properly.

How low can you go? Drivers increasingly risk running out of fuel

www.kwik-fit.com

 

[BTB 500]

Yet, strangely, looking at Autotrader, the average mileage on a three year old Macan is just 25,000 miles, aka 8,000 miles a year, or 160 miles a week

The problem with annual mileages is that you have no idea how they're being covered. For some 8,000 miles will be 22 miles a day (which you could do on a bicycle). But for others it might be a 330 mile trip twice a month.

 

[BTB 500]

I was quite taken with the 19% for HVAC .....

I would be interested to know the difference (if any) between cooling and heating though?

 

[Dryce]

Yes, it is shocking to hear that 800,000 cars are alleged to need rescuing every year because they've run out of fuel.

If so many people really are doing that, those people really shouldn't be switching to EV until they learn to drive properly.

AA figures late last year that the callouts for EVs running out of charge were down to 1.4% of EV callouts.

And the corresponding figure for ICE vehicles was 1%.

So almost the same. The EV callouts as a % had dropped from 4.16% in 2019.

I think that would suggest as the ownership of EVs matures that the callouts for EVs and ICE will converge.

 

[Dryce]

I would be interested to know the difference (if any) between cooling and heating though?

I was wondering how that figure was reached.

I can see that heating in a EV will possibly be higher in winter as there is no combustion engine to provide waste heat. But if that was the case then over the seasons the 19% would vary. So is 19% a worst case of aircon flat out in summer or heating flat out in winter - or an average over the year where the actual figure fluctuates significantly with it going higher in winter.

We used to see high numbers for aircon units - but my impression was that the numbers tended to quote continuous energy consumption as a stated unit capacity - rather than its real world consumption being cycled and managed as part of climate control where its actual use would be a %.

So I'm also wondering if the 19% is a bit of desk research looking at numbers assuming continuous consumption - rather than a managed system that cycles.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

AA figures late last year that the callouts for EVs running out of charge were down to 1.4% of EV callouts.
And the corresponding figure for ICE vehicles was 1%.
So almost the same. The EV callouts as a % had dropped from 4.16% in 2019.
I think that would suggest as the ownership of EVs matures that the callouts for EVs and ICE will converge.

Why would they converge when so many EV's are plugged in to the home tap?

Pulling out a tenner to buy 60 miles at a petrol station is a more inconvenient and cash flow dependent than sticking at 3 pin plug into a wall, and facing a bill for two quid a couple of months later.

And then there's all the vehicles which will be topped up at the work or office tap, with no cash changing hands at all.

 

[SpikyMikey]

Agree, but equally, you'd get home sooner if there wasn't a 70mph speed limit on the motorway. But there's a speed limit, and we live with it, even if it means that we can't get home as quick as we otherwise would. Same goes for topping up an EV along the route.

Incidentally, a 7 hours round trip, at an average speed of 60mph (it's not all motorway driving) is 420 miles. If you have a modern EV with ~300 miles WLTP range, then - depending on driving conditions - you'll probably need to top up once on the way out and then once again on the way back.

As for having EV chargers at the ExCell car park so that drivers can charge at destination and have the EV ready for the way back, that's again not EV thinking... Because one day all - or most - cars will be EVs, and it's inconceivable (and unnecessary) that there'll be a charger at each parking spot. Sure, there should be a few EV chargers for emergencies, but - again - drivers will be expected to top-up at superchargers along the route.

When I drove my EV to the Swiss Alps last year, I did just that - I left home with a full charge, then topped up along the route. I also fully charged the car at the hotel in France overnight. I arrived at my destination with 50% battery, and didn't fully charge the car again untill leaving the village. On the way back, I did the same as on the way out.

BTW, I am in Switzerland again, without the EV this time, it has summer tyres and so not good for the Swiss Alps - and given that it's on a lease and going back in 7 months, I didn't want to bother with snow tyres.

But I am happy to report that the weather is great. This was taken this morning:

Where are you? My friends in Graubunden have had snow this winter, but not enough to open all of the ski runs.

 

[SpikyMikey]

YES!!!

6 hours....? I won't disgrace myself by disclosing my real figure.....

It's not just you

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

The problem with annual mileages is that you have no idea how they're being covered. For some 8,000 miles will be 22 miles a day (which you could do on a bicycle). But for others it might be a 330 mile trip twice a month.

Yes, that's the nature of averages.

Some will be high - even as high as 200 miles a week, or maybe 300 miles a week,

But then many will be much lower.

I've done a thousand miles in the last six weeks and had put fuel into cars four times.

Had I been in EV's, I would have just plugged a vehicle in, overnight, six times, or once a week.

But it does seem that, for owners of new Porsche Macans, half of them are doing less than 160 miles a week.

Now Ferraris: they're a completely different matter. Maybe 60 miles a week? But then no-one buys a Ferrari to actually drive to places.

 

[BTB 500]

AA figures late last year that the callouts for EVs running out of charge were down to 1.4% of EV callouts.

I wonder what the other 98.6% of EV callouts were for?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

As I said, those who insist on running their EVs like they did their ICE cars, will be disappointed with the results.

Tennis is rubbish, every time I try to kick the silly little ball I either stub my toe or it hits the net and apparently that’s not cool when playing tennis. I’ll stick with football, thank you very much.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Of course, but trust me when you've been up since 4AM and are leaving London at 8:30PM facing a 3+ hour drive you just want to get home.

I wouldn’t say a 30 minute stop - making a 16.5 hour day 17 hours - makes too much (negative) difference. If it’s tiring to be out for so long - and driving for 6+ hours - then a 30 minute stop sounds like a good idea to me, rather than a bad idea. Vive la difference.

 

[BTB 500]

Would say a 30 minute stop making a 16.5 hour day 17 hours make all the difference. If it’s tiring to be out for so long - and driving for 6+ hours - then a 30 minute stop sounds like a good idea to me, rather than a bad idea. Vive la difference.

Yup we're all different ... I just want to get home to bed! But if driver fatigue was a limiting factor we'd just swap over and carry on.

 

[markjay]

Where are you? My friends in Graubunden have had snow this winter, but not enough to open all of the ski runs.

On the mountains, between Sierre and Sion.

 

[markjay]

I was quite taken with the 19% for HVAC .....

Sounds arbitrary. Different people set the climate control to different temperatures. Some like it hot.... some don't like heating the car at all. And some use the heated seats and steering wheel, some don't. In summer, some like air-conditioning, some like to have the windows rolled down. This figure us not at all implausible... just arbitrary.

 

[Will]

Is the ability to go 6 hours without needing a pee really so exceptional

Of course it’s possible to go 6 hours without needing a pee (not for all of course!). But the suggestion that it’s an inconvenience is a bit silly - most normal people would want to stretch their legs, have a drink or a bite to eat before that.

Motorway services have existed for many years before EVs became widely available so the notion that they’re an inconvenience and stopping is only an EV thing is a bit of a stretch.

Using relatively unusual case examples doesn’t really define what suits the majority of the motoring public. A short stop on a long journey is normal and expected for most people no matter what vehicle you’re driving.

 

[markjay]

Yup we're all different ... I just want to get home to bed! But if driver fatigue was a limiting factor we'd just swap over and carry on.

So now we need to add to the list - on top of having to drive 400 miles nonstop, on the motorway, while heating the car to the max, and a driver that only needs to spend a penny once every 6 hours - a co-pilot, and we've finally found the case use scenario where an EV won't cut it.....

 

[Mactech]

I was quite taken with the 19% for HVAC .....

Yes, makes perfect sense that I get the best m/kWh figures when it's 'Goldilocks' temperature. Not too hot, not too cold. I've seen up to 5.8 in those conditions, but in the last few weeks down to 3.8 in the i3.

 

[poormansporsche]

Ya big woofters.

I regularly do a 10 hour shift without a "break". The only stops are to carry heavy boxes up flights of stairs.

Breaking my neck for a pi££ by the end of the day .......

But he ho I get to finish half a hour early and get paid for it.........