The EV fact thread

[markjay]

Ya big woofters.

I regularly do a 10 hour shift without a "break". The only stops are to carry heavy boxes up flights of stairs.

Breaking my neck for a pi££ by the end of the day .......

But he ho I get to finish half a hour early and get paid for it.........

No toilet breaks.....?

 

[poormansporsche]

No toilet breaks.....?

Some days not. Even if I do it's a quick tinkle in a bush. Not enough time to put a gallon of ice power in let alone charge a EV

But I'm really not normal ........

(I only like my own toilet, dont ask........)

 

[Will]

So now we need to add to the list - on top of having to drive 400 miles nonstop, on the motorway, while heating the car to the max, and a driver that only needs to spend a penny once every 6 hours - a co-pilot, and we've finally found the case use scenario where an EV won't cut it.....

Both driver and co-pilot would also need equal resilience for fluid intake, leg stretching, and of course not using any facilities.

And somehow plugging in an EV whilst parked is seen as some kind of sufferance?

I’m sure excel will have chargers soon so should hopefully be able to cross that one off the list of impossible destinations to visit in anything other than a diesel or petrol powered vehicle.

 

[190]

Ya big woofters.

I regularly do a 10 hour shift without a "break". The only stops are to carry heavy boxes up flights of stairs.

Breaking my neck for a pi££ by the end of the day .......

But he ho I get to finish half a hour early and get paid for it.........

Can't be too many 70 year old male delivery drivers then as I wouldn't make it much over two hours some days. There I've defined my EV range requirements. Two hours at 70 mph equals 140 miles. Call it 200 for winter conditions and climbing the hills on the M62.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Some days not. Even if I do it's a quick tinkle in a bush. Not enough time to put a gallon of ice power in let alone charge a EV

But I'm really not normal ........

(I only like my own toilet, dont ask........)

I see kidney stones in your future! That's not good for you at all and you clearly don't drink enough fluid.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Incidentally, a 7 hours round trip, at an average speed of 60mph (it's not all motorway driving) is 420 miles. If you have a modern EV with ~300 miles WLTP range, then - depending on driving conditions - you'll probably need to top up once on the way out and then once again on the way back.

In all my years of driving I think I've averaged 60 mph plus on a long journey just the once....and that was early on a Sunday going to Donington Park from Sussex... on a 1000cc bike. Averaging 60 will mean doing 90 plus everywhere you can. Every time you slow down for traffic or a junction the average tumbles down fast. In 2025 Britain, averaging anything over 45 or 50 takes real luck and risk. And you can't count resetting the trip as you get on the motorway!.....you have to include the whole journey, drive to drive.

 

[markjay]

In all my years of driving I think I've averaged 60 mph plus on a long journey just the once....and that was early on a Sunday going to Donington Park from Sussex... on a 1000cc bike. Averaging 60 will mean doing 90 plus everywhere you can. Every time you slow down for traffic or a junction the average tumbles down fast. In 2025 Britain, averaging anything over 45 or 50 takes real luck and risk. And you can't count resetting the trip as you get on the motorway!.....you have to include the whole journey, drive to drive.

I was being generous....

 

[tode]

I don't dawdle on the road, but it always surprises me how low my average speed is . . . a few traffic lights and a couple of caravans and I'm down to 50 kph

 

[BTB 500]

Averaging 60 will mean doing 90 plus everywhere you can.

It depends when/where you are driving. Early on Saturday/Sunday with a lot of motorway we often average in the high 50s without ever going over ACPO guideline speeds (UK, door to door trips) e.g.



But average speeds are another bit of misdirection used by EVangelists (like average annual mileages). If you do 150 miles on a quiet motorway at a steady 75 mph with 15 miles of local driving each end at an average of 30 mph then your average speed for the whole journey is 60 mph. But you will have used a lot more energy than driving the same total distance at 60 mph.

 

[BTB 500]

So now we need to add to the list - on top of having to drive 400 miles nonstop, on the motorway, while heating the car to the max, and a driver that only needs to spend a penny once every 6 hours - a co-pilot, and we've finally found the case use scenario where an EV won't cut it.....

Not really because as mentioned far more realistic scenario is doing the same mileage in two parts (not non-stop), but without the ability to charge while you're doing whatever the trip was for.

 

[BTB 500]

I’m sure excel will have chargers soon so should hopefully be able to cross that one off the list of impossible destinations to visit in anything other than a diesel or petrol powered vehicle.

Again it all depends on what you're using the vehicle for, but if you're driving 150-200 miles it's unlikely to be for a shopping trip. Many 'event' venues have extremely limited EV charging (if any) and presumably you'd have to go out and move your car once it had charged, by which point you might not be able to find a 'normal' parking space there?

As mentioned before none of the destinations I've done long day trips to in the last year or two had any charging on site (funerals, care home, hospital, family members, etc.).

Our hobby of competing with the dogs is much less typical but again none of the agricultural showgrounds etc. that we normally go to have any charging available.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

But average speeds are another bit of misdirection used by EVangelists, petroluddites and dieseluddites (like average annual mileages).

Fixed that for you.

 

[markjay]

I don't dawdle on the road, but it always surprises me how low my average speed is . . . a few traffic lights and a couple of caravans and I'm down to 50 kph

Over several years of driving in London and the SE without resetting my trip computer, my average speed was.... 9 mph

Covering a mixture of long and short journeys.

The issue isn't the 20mph limit, or even heavy traffic, the real average speed killer is idle time at long traffic lights and roadworks.

 

[poormansporsche]

Again it all depends on what you're using the vehicle for, but if you're driving 150-200 miles it's unlikely to be for a shopping trip. Many 'event' venues have extremely limited EV charging (if any) and presumably you'd have to go out and move your car once it had charged, by which point you might not be able to find a 'normal' parking space there?

As mentioned before none of the destinations I've done long day trips to in the last year or two had any charging on site (funerals, care home, hospital, family members, etc.).

Our hobby of competing with the dogs is much less typical but again none of the agricultural showgrounds etc. that we normally go to have any charging available.

Ya. Dogs and EV charging on the go just doesn't work.

My Dogs teeth cleaning lady is a 110 mile round trip. The summer range on the Leaf is fine to make the trip but the winter range isn't. It wouldn't be appropriate to ask to plug in my granny charger at the ladies house and the chances of me using a public charger with 3 uptight dogs for a hour mid journey is zero.

But he ho it wasn't a surprise as I did my research before I bought the car

 

[190]

If you do 150 miles on a quiet motorway at a steady 75 mph with 15 miles of local driving each end at an average of 30 mph then your average speed for the whole journey is 60 mph. But you will have used a lot more energy than driving the same total distance at 60 mph.

And driving at 60mph instead of 70mph would make a difference to EV range.

Has anyone done a test and observed the miles/kWh at 60 and then at 70 ? It's only a 14% increase in speed but you would expect to see the power requirements increase by a larger figure due to the aero drag.

 

[BTB 500]

Of course it’s possible to go 6 hours without needing a pee (not for all of course!). But the suggestion that it’s an inconvenience is a bit silly - most normal people would want to stretch their legs, have a drink or a bite to eat before that.

Motorway services have existed for many years before EVs became widely available so the notion that they’re an inconvenience and stopping is only an EV thing is a bit of a stretch.

Using relatively unusual case examples doesn’t really define what suits the majority of the motoring public. A short stop on a long journey is normal and expected for most people no matter what vehicle you’re driving.

Certainly 6 hour etc. non-stop trips are exceptional, but something like two hours out and two hours back isn't a particularly unusual case for many people. And I think most people can drive for a couple of hours without needing to stop. So a suggestion that EVs are just as convenient on longer runs all hinges on being able to charge at the destination.

Obviously on motorways a much higher proportion of drivers really are making long runs (including vans/coaches/trucks ... not just private cars), so rest/comfort breaks are probably more of a requirement. Certainly historically (when most motorway service stations were built) cars were a lot slower and not really capable of long high speed runs anyway. When I was a kid driving from Surrey to Nottingham to stay with my grandparents took most of a day - the family car we had then was theoretically capable of 72 mph, but certainly not all day long! We always stopped a couple of times. Now I wouldn't dream of it - while we still lived down south I drove up to Nottingham for a funeral and was back home again by late afternoon.

 

[BTB 500]

And driving at 60mph instead of 70mph would make a difference to EV range.

Has anyone done a test and observed the miles/kWh at 60 and then at 70 ? It's only a 14% increase in speed but you would expect to see the power requirements increase by a larger figure due to the aero drag.

Precisely - drag (which we know accounts for most of the power usage when cruising) is based on the square of the speed - it doesn't go up linearly.

 

[markjay]

Again it all depends on what you're using the vehicle for, but if you're driving 150-200 miles it's unlikely to be for a shopping trip. Many 'event' venues have extremely limited EV charging (if any) and presumably you'd have to go out and move your car once it had charged, by which point you might not be able to find a 'normal' parking space there?

As mentioned before none of the destinations I've done long day trips to in the last year or two had any charging on site (funerals, care home, hospital, family members, etc.).

Our hobby of competing with the dogs is much less typical but again none of the agricultural showgrounds etc. that we normally go to have any charging available.

As per my previous post, the expectation of having an EV charger next to each parking slot at the destination is unrealistic, and will become more so as more people drive EVs.

Fast superchargers at motorway services on the way there and back are the only realistic option. That, or leaving your car (EV or ICE) at your local train station car park and catching an early train into London.

As for convenience.... we should keep in mind that there are around 10m people living in Greater London, it's nigh on impossible to accommodate everyone's convenience needs, and compromises will have to made. Of course, people can choose to live in a rural area or a small village or town and only ever travel to other rural areas or to the nearest town, and they can use their car to their heart's content.

 

[BTB 500]

Fixed that for you.

"EV power usage at 70 mph is irrelevant/unrealistic as average speeds are much lower than that".

Gets quoted all the time.

 

[markjay]

It depends when/where you are driving. Early on Saturday/Sunday with a lot of motorway we often average in the high 50s without ever going over ACPO guideline speeds (UK, door to door trips) e.g.

View attachment 166628

But average speeds are another bit of misdirection used by EVangelists (like average annual mileages). If you do 150 miles on a quiet motorway at a steady 75 mph with 15 miles of local driving each end at an average of 30 mph then your average speed for the whole journey is 60 mph. But you will have used a lot more energy than driving the same total distance at 60 mph.

If your driving to ExCell from outside London... you can't avoid around 45 minutes or so (more, during rush hour) of city driving on roads with speed limits of 20mph or 30mph, traffic lights, roundabouts, junctions, traffic lights, and roadworks... if your total driving time is 3 hours, then you're looking at roughly one quarter to one third of the journey time making progress at average speeds of well below 10mph.