The EV fact thread

[markjay]

In All-Wheel Drive form the Cybertruck weighs 2,995kg...

Wow. That's 20% more than Range Rover V8 weighs....

 

[BTB 500]

Except in a REEV - the engine does not drive the wheels.
You can use the car and never start the engine - if you don’t want to.

Can you run the engine while the car is 'off' though? If not it doesn't sound any different to a series hybrid (e.g. Nissan e-POWER), where the engine only generates electricity and has no mechanical drive to the wheels. Obviously you can drive any hybrid (series or parallel) without the engine running, provided the battery has charge.

 

[BTB 500]

Beginning to wonder if this approval isn't for offroad (site) use only. No mention of road registration and that flies in the face of the pending ban on ICE sales. As would any EV with range extender ICE.

Is there actually any proposed ban on ICE sales? I thought the requirement was for vehicles to be 'zero emission', which petrol and diesel can't achieve but AFAIK hydrogen combustion can (with suitable exhaust treatment).

 

[markjay]

Can you run the engine while the car is 'off' though? If not it doesn't sound any different to a series hybrid (e.g. Nissan e-POWER), where the engine only generates electricity and has no mechanical drive to the wheels. Obviously you can drive any hybrid (series or parallel) without the engine running, provided the battery has charge.

As per my post above, the concept isn't new, but for some reason it just didn't catch on. Perhaps BYD found the market for it?

One issue I can see, though, is that you'll need to run the petrol engine well in advance of the battery being depleted, which requires planning ahead. It might work if you know you'll be driving through an area with no chargers, and running the petrol engine while driving will simply mean that the battery now depletes at a much lower rate (hence the range extension).

 

[Mactech]

So sorry to break into this thread again, but I think there might actually be a fact or two in this article
I was quite taken by the chart at the end showing what was draining the battery in an EV at 70mph….

Inside the race to 5.0mpkWh: the secrets to long-range EVs | Autocar

Manufacturers are honing every detail to close in on a transformative efficiency goal

www.autocar.co.uk

 

[Steveml63]

As per my post above, the concept isn't new, but for some reason it just didn't catch on. Perhaps BYD found the market for it?

One issue I can see, though, is that you'll need to run the petrol engine well in advance of the battery being depleted, which requires planning ahead. It might work if you know you'll be driving through an area with no chargers, and running the petrol engine while driving will simply mean that the battery now depletes at a much lower rate (hence the range extension).

No idea of the actual operating duty of the engine - and how much power it puts into the battery per hour of running.
Even if you run out of electricity - at least you can sit by side of the road with the engine running to put enough power in the battery to get you to the next charger - whilst you watch YouTube or Netflix on the big screens these vehicles seem to have!

 

[BTB 500]

I think I’d be more concerned about comfortable seats than range on a vehicle if driving for 6 hours solid, regardless of stopping!

Is this some kind of Guinness world record bladder holding attempt or something?

What’s the obsession with ‘not stopping’ like it’s some kind of achievement or personal goal?

I’d say, personally speaking, absolute max of 3 hours or 200 miles would be where I’d want to stretch my legs and refresh, and I don’t think this puts me in a minority. But I guess we’re all different

Is the ability to go 6 hours without needing a pee really so exceptional

But as discussed many times before a far more realistic scenario is 2-3 hours of motorway driving to somewhere, then 2-3 hours back home again. So perhaps six hours of driving, but not all in one go

As also discussed there are plenty of destinations where charging an EV at all (let alone ultra-rapid charging) wouldn't be possible. E.g. The ExCel Centre in Docklands where we were last month (approx. 180 miles from us) has no EV charging.

 

[BTB 500]

As per my post above, the concept isn't new, but for some reason it just didn't catch on. Perhaps BYD found the market for it?

One issue I can see, though, is that you'll need to run the petrol engine well in advance of the battery being depleted, which requires planning ahead. It might work if you know you'll be driving through an area with no chargers, and running the petrol engine while driving will simply mean that the battery now depletes at a much lower rate (hence the range extension).

But you can walk into any Nissan dealership and buy an an X-Trail or Qashqai which does that

My understanding is that they will run continuously on petrol once the battery is flat - same as the original BMW i3 (although IIRC that had a pretty small tank?).

 

[markjay]

If that's still the case today sorry to break into this thread again, but I think there might actually be a fact or two in this article
I was quite taken by the chart at the end showing what was draining the battery in an EV at 70mph….

Inside the race to 5.0mpkWh: the secrets to long-range EVs | Autocar

Manufacturers are honing every detail to close in on a transformative efficiency goal

www.autocar.co.uk

Very informative article.

There's an old joke, from the nineties, about a typist who, when making a mistake, uses tipex on the computer screen.....

I think that the key to the successful adaptation of EVs is changing peoples mind sets; an EV isn't simply an ICE car that runs on leccy instead of dino juice. Those who insist on operating their EVs in the same way that they operated their ICE car before that, will always be disappointed.

As a child, when passing a shop window of a driving school, I was always impressed with the dissected model car and other accessories showing how the engine, clutch, transmission, steering, brakes etc work. Understanding how your car works used to be included in your training, not sure if that's still the case today.

EVs arent rocket science. Young drivers will grow into them easily, and will forget about ICE engines and transmissions. How many of us remember the days when you needed to use the choke to start the car on a cold morning? Or check and top up the electrolyte level in the battery? Or use the starting handle to crank the engine? Or retard the ignition using a level on the steering wheel? Etc. What do our children know of all this? Not much, probably.

It's important that we understand how EVs work and what are the best practices when operating them, just like we did with ICE cars over the past 100+ years.

 

[markjay]

Is the ability to go 6 hours without needing a pee really so exceptional

YES!!!

6 hours....? I won't disgrace myself by disclosing my real figure.....

 

[ALFAitalia]

Was that hours or minutes!!????

 

[markjay]

But you can walk into any Nissan dealership and buy an an X-Trail or Qashqai which does that

My understanding is that they will run continuously on petrol once the battery is flat - same as the original BMW i3 (although IIRC that had a pretty small tank?).

I can see another potential issue with REEVs.

Because the petrol engine never powers the wheels, it will likely be classified as an onboard generator.

As such, presumably it would be exempt from emissions regulations?

If so, then it will certainly make it cheaper to produce and more reliable to run....

But do we really want to see many of these in urban areas?

 

[PXW]

As also discussed there are plenty of destinations where charging an EV at all (let alone ultra-rapid charging) wouldn't be possible. E.g. The ExCel Centre in Docklands where we were last month (approx. 180 miles from us) has no EV charging.

But there are numerous charge places within a mile or so. And even more are conveniently placed en route so you don’t end up needing to charge at a destination which doesn’t happen to have a charger, so it’s hardly insurmountable.

Though I agree ExCel do need to have a long hard look at themselves and get some installed - especially as they host the annual London EV show!

 

[BTB 500]

I can see another potential issue with REEVs.

Because the petrol engine never powers the wheels, it will likely be classified as an onboard generator.

As such, presumably it would be exempt from emissions regulations?

If so, then it will certainly make it cheaper to produce and more reliable to run....

But do we really want to see many of these in urban areas?

I would have thought they'd be treated as a vehicle fitted with an ICE that's not zero emission ... same as any petrol or diesel hybrid. If not directly driving the wheels was a valid exemption then these might make a comeback

 

[markjay]

But there are numerous charge places within a mile or so. And even more are conveniently placed en route so you don’t end up needing to charge at a destination which doesn’t happen to have a charger, so it’s hardly insurmountable.

Though I agree ExCel do need to have a long hard look at themselves and get some installed - especially as they host the annual London EV show!

As above. Filling up at the end if the leg is old-fashion ICE thinking... because you wouldn't 'top-up' an ICE car along the route. But it's different with EVs. As I said, those who insist on running their EVs like they did their ICE cars, will be disappointed with the results.

 

[BTB 500]

But there are numerous charge places within a mile or so. And even more are conveniently placed en route so you don’t end up needing to charge at a destination which doesn’t happen to have a charger, so it’s hardly insurmountable.

Of course, but trust me when you've been up since 4AM and are leaving London at 8:30PM facing a 3+ hour drive you just want to get home.

Though I agree ExCel do need to have a long hard look at themselves and get some installed - especially as they host the annual London EV show!

 

[BTB 500]

Filling up at the end if the leg is old-fashion ICE thinking... because you wouldn't 'top-up' an ICE car along the route. But it's different with EVs.

Yes, that's exactly the point. You wouldn't need to top up an ICE car at all. It's not the case that EVs are just the same as ICE because "(a) you can charge while at your destination or (b) you can charge every time you have to stop for a pee/coffee/burger/etc. anyway". Sometimes you just need/want to push on, and you can always do that with an ICE.

This is just part of your personal cost/benefit case - we all have different requirements for our vehicles and lifestyles, and a 'show stopper' to one person will be totally irrelevant to someone else. I totally get that.

 

[markjay]

Of course, but trust me when you've been up since 4AM and are leaving London at 8:30PM facing a 3+ hour drive you just want to get home.

Agree, but equally, you'd get home sooner if there wasn't a 70mph speed limit on the motorway. But there's a speed limit, and we live with it, even if it means that we can't get home as quick as we otherwise would. Same goes for topping up an EV along the route.

Incidentally, a 7 hours round trip, at an average speed of 60mph (it's not all motorway driving) is 420 miles. If you have a modern EV with ~300 miles WLTP range, then - depending on driving conditions - you'll probably need to top up once on the way out and then once again on the way back.

As for having EV chargers at the ExCell car park so that drivers can charge at destination and have the EV ready for the way back, that's again not EV thinking... Because one day all - or most - cars will be EVs, and it's inconceivable (and unnecessary) that there'll be a charger at each parking spot. Sure, there should be a few EV chargers for emergencies, but - again - drivers will be expected to top-up at superchargers along the route.

When I drove my EV to the Swiss Alps last year, I did just that - I left home with a full charge, then topped up along the route. I also fully charged the car at the hotel in France overnight. I arrived at my destination with 50% battery, and didn't fully charge the car again untill leaving the village. On the way back, I did the same as on the way out.

BTW, I am in Switzerland again, without the EV this time, it has summer tyres and so not good for the Swiss Alps - and given that it's on a lease and going back in 7 months, I didn't want to bother with snow tyres.

But I am happy to report that the weather is great. This was taken this morning:

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

More pertinent for many is that they can re-instate full operating range in an ICE vehicle in less time than it took you to type that post.

Because the world is full of Macan owners who drive much more than 6 hours and 300+ miles every morning without a comfort break?

Yet, strangely, looking at Autotrader, the average mileage on a three year old Macan is just 25,000 miles, aka 8,000 miles a year, or 160 miles a week Odd that.

Real Porsche owners know that it's not the fuel tank range that's the issue, it's the quality of the drive, and the sound of the exhaust,

 

[BTB 500]

So sorry to break into this thread again, but I think there might actually be a fact or two in this article
I was quite taken by the chart at the end showing what was draining the battery in an EV at 70mph….

Inside the race to 5.0mpkWh: the secrets to long-range EVs | Autocar

Manufacturers are honing every detail to close in on a transformative efficiency goal

www.autocar.co.uk

This illustrates precisely why bulky vehicles like vans/trucks/coaches that need to drive at motorway speeds for significant distances simply don't work with current battery technology.

If you're just concerned with transporting 1-5 people and a bit of luggage then there are certainly gains to be made though.