The EV fact thread

[BTB 500]

I’m guessing you’ve looked at the stats for vehicle fires though - quite dangerous travelling in a ICE powered vehicle when you think about it

IIRC these stats are potentially skewed though. They're not based on the vehicle itself catching fire - they include arson etc. and fires from cargo or onboard equipment like refrigeration units (which are often left running at all times, even when parked). As you know the huge majority of goods vehicles are ICE powered. It may indeed be that EVs are a lower fire risk, but I don't think there are any reliable statistics to support this.

The majority of EVs are also quite young (bearing in mind that almost 50% of the cars on UK roads are over 10 years old). We won't know for a few years yet whether older EVs might see a higher incidence of fires (as battery packs age etc.).

 

[Will]

Got to admire your repeated posts positioning reluctance to change as a weakness.

Is it a strength?

I’ve not said it’s a weakness, but it’s a fairly well known psychological trait that some people have an irrational fear of change.

 

[Will]

Does anyone know of a multi-charger site in the UK that isn't built next to a petrol station, and has a shop?

I believe that the shop came about because you had to go into the booth to pay the attendant.

(Pay-at-pump has been around for 20 years now, long before mobile phones app where invented, but it never did seem to catch-on big time - drivers still prefer to pay at the shop)

In the South of Italy there are petrol stations that are not self-service, and you pay the attendant who fills up your car - there's no shop (though they do sell engine oil and fuel additives etc).

And in Switzerland there are unattended petrol stations (pay-at-pump with credit card) - again, no shop.

My guess is that the petrol station shops will go. They will not survive electrification. Motorway Service will still have a rest and shopping area, obviously, but the traditional petrol station shop will go once drivers no longer need to walk in and pay for fuel.

The BP garage I mentioned - but that used to be a petrol station before hand. It was closed for quite a long time whilst the upgrade took place. I’m 95% sure the Shell recharge garage in Fulham also has a shop but I’ve not been past it for a while.

Ironically British Petroleum and Shell can see the light better than some end users it seems

 

[Will]

IIRC these stats are potentially skewed though. They're not based on the vehicle itself catching fire - they include arson etc. and fires from cargo or onboard equipment like refrigeration units (which are often left running at all times, even when parked). As you know the huge majority of goods vehicles are ICE powered. It may indeed be that EVs are a lower fire risk, but I don't think there are any reliable statistics to support this.

The majority of EVs are also quite young (bearing in mind that almost 50% of the cars on UK roads are over 10 years old). We won't know for a few years yet whether older EVs might see a higher incidence of fires (as battery packs age etc.).

Sure data can be interpreted in different way of course. But the argument has gone from EVs supposedly catching fire regularly and being a major concern, to now the data shows that they’re something like 20 times lower risk, and we’re now saying that maybe they’re slightly better but not as much as the stats are saying

 

[BTB 500]

Same as Costco/Tesco with their cut price fuel?

Not sure if it’s loss making, but I can be certain that the pricing structure is based around footfall (same as the £1.50 hot dog and soda!)

Of course. Supermarkets have been doing this for decades.

Costco fuel forecourts are unstaffed of course - this could be partially behind their lower prices. The nearest one to us is an 85 mile round trip though so we don't use them very often. Often huge queues too!

 

[Will]

Fact thread:

- EVs cost too much, now they’re too cheap/cost too little/depreciate too fast?

- There’s not enough EV chargers - now there’s too many EV chargers not being used?

- EVs catch fire too much, but now they’ve been shown to catch fire a lot less often it must be because they’re newer than the old ICE vehicles? Or all the ICE fires are arson and no-one burns an EV on purpose?

- EVs are selling too slowly (only 20% of the new cars sold last year were fully electric). But how can the grid possibly cope with this rate of change (despite national grid saying otherwise!)

 

[ChipChop]

Is it a strength?

I’ve not said it’s a weakness, but it’s a fairly well known psychological trait that some people have an irrational fear of change.

Depends entirely if the proposed change is beneficial or detrimental to the individual and society at large (see the energy transition).

Remind me in what ways are EV's better than the ICE's they seek to replace? There would naturally be little resistance to this particular change if EV's were demonstrably better than ICE's no?

Sneeking the pejorative irrational into the mix is "interesting".

 

[BTB 500]

I also wonder which Shell that was - there’s quite a few nearby and I can think of at least two in Weybridge still now?

It was on the right here ... there was a car dealership opposite on the left which has also gone:



The Shell station on Oatlands Drive was still there last time I looked - I used to get off the bus from Walton there on my way to school

 

[Will]

It was on the right here ... there was a car dealership opposite on the left which has also gone:

View attachment 167042

The Shell station on Oatlands Drive was still there last time I looked - I used to get off the bus from Walton there on my way to school

To be fair that’s literally half a mile away from the other Shell garage so I’m not surprised!

 

[Will]

Depends entirely if the proposed change is beneficial or detrimental to the individual and society at large (see the energy transition).

Remind me in what ways are EV's better than the ICE's they seek to replace? There would naturally be little resistance to this particular change if EV's were demonstrably better than ICE's no?

Sneeking the pejorative irrational into the mix is "interesting".

You’ve made your views on the matter very clear.

The rest of the world is gradually changing.

What do you intend to do about it?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

No Teslas are still catching fire at random it seems. Sad fact. Call it a public service anouncement for the Tesla owners on this Mercedes forum. One positive the Scottish fire brigade acted swiftly and prevented the fire spreading to the battery pack.

ChopChop ChipChop, it’s been three weeks since that fire happened.

 

[BTB 500]

My guess is that the petrol station shops will go. They will not survive electrification. Motorway Service will still have a rest and shopping area, obviously, but the traditional petrol station shop will go once drivers no longer need to walk in and pay for fuel.

You don't always need walk in to pay for fuel now - you can often do it by card at the pump or via a phone app.

The trend seems to be for forecourt shops to be independently run (it's M&S at my local BP), and as mentioned plenty of people seem to be in there who aren't buying fuel. So I suspect many would be viable as standalone stores ... particularly if they added a few ultra-rapid chargers.

 

[Will]

The old pubs that I mentioned that have turned into small Tesco and Sainsbury’s stores, could do the same but in reverse (add a few ultra-rapid chargers to their parking spaces - draw in even more customers with a 20 min charge whilst shopping or whatever

 

[BTB 500]

To be fair that’s literally half a mile away from the other Shell garage so I’m not surprised!

Yes pretty close but not a unique situation I think, and they were both there for a good few decades.

 

[ChipChop]

You’ve made your views on the matter very clear.

The rest of the world is gradually changing.

What do you intend to do about it?

Private consumer demand for EV's contracts to levels last seen in the pandemic with just one in 10 going electric in 2024.

I suppose you could call that a gradual change of sorts.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Got to admire your repeated posts positioning reluctance to change as a weakness.

I can’t see anything in @Will post that even implies weakness, but that may be because I don’t believe resistance to change as a weakness and perhaps you do.

So when I read “resistance to change” in Will’s post I think “resistance to change” whereas you might think “weakness”. All a matter of perspective.

Resistance to change is a human trait. We all do it, to varying degrees based upon the specifics of the change, the individuals circumstances, attitude to risk, and evenage.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I think it's a chicken and egg situation.
Public charging prices are currently very high. In France, I typically paid 49c at a 350kW supercharger on the autoroute. In the UK it's around 79p. I don't know if France or the EU are subsiding electricity in France?
At any rate, as long as drivers can charge for considerably less elsewhere (at home, at work, or free chargers at retail parks etc) they will only use these public charging stations if they absolutely need to.

As briefly discussed, the typical French hypermarket, such as Carrefour, gives an hour's worth of 22kwh charging for free to anyone with a loyalty card. Call it 70 miles while you pick up your weekly shop, if you will.

And if you want more, there are 150kwh and 350kwh chargers on site as well. Barely anyone uses them, but they're there already.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Private consumer demand for EV's contracts to levels last seen in the pandemic with just one in 10 going electric in 2024.

I suppose you could call that a gradual change of sorts.

One in ten? How do you work that out? There's only 1.25 million EV's on the road surely, out of over 30 million vehicles.

If every car changed hands in 2025, it would only be one in 25.

Or are you one of those folk who has always only bought new cars to run them until they die?

Or are you talking about the 400,000 EV's sold in 2024 (20% of the new market) ? Many of which will be resold, at big discounts, within a few months out into the direct consumer market as "pre-registered" or "management" cars. (£25k gets you a £35k VW ID3 with only 3k on the clock)

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The prevalence of sensationalist journalism is a given surely when the subject is justifications for/against the energy transition. A notion predicated on there being a climate emergency with mass extinction just around the corner. Doesn't get much more sensationalist that that imo.

I can’t remember the last time I saw, heard or read the phrase “climate emergency” from any source other than your posts on MBClub.

Have you accidentally subscribed to bulletin boards, internet forums, facebook groups and similar which are intended for activists?

 

[ChipChop]

I can’t see anything in @Will post that even implies weakness, but that may be because I don’t believe resistance to change as a weakness and perhaps you do.

So when I read “resistance to change” in Will’s post I think “resistance to change” whereas you might think “weakness”. All a matter of perspective.

Resistance to change is a human trait. We all do it, to varying degrees based upon the specifics of the change, the individuals circumstances, attitude to risk, and evenage.

Will has a history of posts using reluctance to change as a theme just like you. He also has a single post stating reluctance to change is irrational which should give you a clear indication of his train of thought on the subject.