The EV fact thread

[MeQ]

If only it were that simple. Either you have been very very lucky or you are new to charging on non Tesla pubic charging points.
Obviously the charger needs to be working and available to use; the apps will not necessarily be accurate on that point. There are a surprisingly high % of chargers either oos or vandalised at any one point in time. Assuming that the charger is actually working then it needs to start the charge on your car - for reasons unknown this is not guaranteed - it just refuses to initiate - at that point you have to decide to either move to the next charger or get on the phone to see if it can be connected.
It seems to be getting better and is now just bad rather than very bad.
Too many problems with broken chargers (sometimes broken for months, not days), chargers that won't initiate the charge, cables getting locked into the car and won't release, no queuing etiquette or system in place at busy chargers and on top of that no cheaper than an ICE car at public chargers. I take my hat off to anyone who runs a non Tesla EV as a main car; they must be more patient than me.
As a second/third whatever car to run around locally and charge at home at night or from solar they are brilliant. A main family car no thanks.

Tbh I haven’t seen loads but have never seen a broken or vandalised charger.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Tbh I haven’t seen loads but have never seen a broken or vandalised charger.

Quite. I haven't ever seen a queue for a charger either, but according to the Dieselerati everyone has to queue for hours.

 

[MeQ]

Quite. I haven't ever seen a queue for a charger either, but according to the Dieselerati everyone has to queue for hours.

Had a quick Look on the app and of the 14 charging points available within 4 miles only 1 is currently being used so I’d be very unlucky to find a queue.

*edit* 14 locations, most are at least 2 charging points per location.

 

[markjay]

Yes for sure. 170 kW is the maximum for the EQE 300 in question, but the battery can't handle that continuously hence the average rate over a rapid charge drops to 120 kW (from that EV database I linked to, not personal experience ).

Edit - checking the M40 (a motorway I use fairly often) almost all of the chargers on that seem to be 50 kW. Presumably it can be quicker overall to take a longer route, going via faster chargers. I assume some (most?) EVs would handle this in their satnav systems.

Interesting info here (Hyundai misleading advert):

Electric vehicle charging times quoted in adverts 'misleading'

The Advertising Standards Authority has found that adverts from Toyota and Hyundai giving electric vehicle battery charging times were misleading.

www.fleetnews.co.uk

"Hyundai described how the Ioniq 5 could be charged from 10-80% in 18 minutes on ads appearing on a digital billboard, a YouTube video and in a marketing brochure.

However, the ASA received several complaints arguing that there were significant limitations to achieving the advertised charging rate, including low temperature.

Hyundai said that the ads were intended to help address consumer concerns about charge times affecting longer journeys.

In its defence, it provided the ASA with results of their internal factory testing of the charging times for both Ioniq 5 battery options (72.6kWh and 58kWh).

They stated that testing established a time of 17 minutes and 16 seconds to charge the battery from 10% to 80% when using a 350 kW ultra-fast charger, and with the battery at temperatures of 22 and 25 degrees centigrade.

In the advert which appeared on YouTube, Hyundai said not including a reference to ultra-fast charging was an oversight and the ad had now been removed.

It also argued that the average consumer, particularly one contemplating adopting an EV, would be aware that "ultra-fast" 350 kW charging indicated a higher speed charger that was different from fast, standard or slow charging.

Hyundai said they would be willing to amend the claims that were subject to the complaint in its brochure to make clear that charging time could vary from 18 to 36 minutes and was dependent on being connected to an ultra-fast 350kW charger.

It would also qualify the claim to state that charging times would increase at lower battery temperatures, and that charge times were dependant on a number of factors including battery temperature, condition and age, ambient temperature and the power provided by the charger.

It also proposed to include text informing consumers that ultra-fast 350 kW chargers were currently available on selected motorways/major arterial routes, excluding Northern Ireland.

The ASA acknowledged that the evidence provided by Hyundai showed that, under standardised testing conditions (with a new battery and in a temperature-controlled environment with ambient temperatures of 22 and 25 degrees centigrade) the battery could be charged from 10% to 80% in under 18 minutes using a 350kW charger.

However, it said it would expect Hyundai to qualify the charging claim with an explanation of the conditions under which the figures were achieved and that they may not reflect actual consumer experience.

As a result, it ruled that the claims had not been substantiated and were misleading, and the adverts must not appear again."

 

[PXW]

just don’t buy a Tesla 3 which has appalling rear vision, through the window, via the screens and over the shoulder….

I quite like the visibility in my Tesla 3, especially the cameras/screen! The screen camera display has improved a lot in the last few months

 

[Noitz]

...Tesla pubic charging points.

A Freudian slip methinks?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I quite like the visibility in my Tesla 3, especially the cameras/screen! The screen camera display has improved a lot in the last few months

To be fair, I was in a 2022 rental car that had done 35k miles. Hertz, bless their cotton socks, aren't renowned for keeping their motors in the best of order.

But, in comparison to a BMW 3 series, rear and rear sideways vision was hopeless, and felt like a real risk when pulling out onto highways at speed.

Bottom line: everyone should test drive and see what suits them.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Interesting info here (Hyundai misleading advert):

Electric vehicle charging times quoted in adverts 'misleading'

The Advertising Standards Authority has found that adverts from Toyota and Hyundai giving electric vehicle battery charging times were misleading.

www.fleetnews.co.uk

"Hyundai described how the Ioniq 5 could be charged from 10-80% in 18 minutes on ads appearing on a digital billboard, a YouTube video and in a marketing brochure.

However, the ASA received several complaints arguing that there were significant limitations to achieving the advertised charging rate, including low temperature.

Hyundai said that the ads were intended to help address consumer concerns about charge times affecting longer journeys.

In its defence, it provided the ASA with results of their internal factory testing of the charging times for both Ioniq 5 battery options (72.6kWh and 58kWh).

They stated that testing established a time of 17 minutes and 16 seconds to charge the battery from 10% to 80% when using a 350 kW ultra-fast charger, and with the battery at temperatures of 22 and 25 degrees centigrade.

In the advert which appeared on YouTube, Hyundai said not including a reference to ultra-fast charging was an oversight and the ad had now been removed.

It also argued that the average consumer, particularly one contemplating adopting an EV, would be aware that "ultra-fast" 350 kW charging indicated a higher speed charger that was different from fast, standard or slow charging.

Hyundai said they would be willing to amend the claims that were subject to the complaint in its brochure to make clear that charging time could vary from 18 to 36 minutes and was dependent on being connected to an ultra-fast 350kW charger.

It would also qualify the claim to state that charging times would increase at lower battery temperatures, and that charge times were dependant on a number of factors including battery temperature, condition and age, ambient temperature and the power provided by the charger.

It also proposed to include text informing consumers that ultra-fast 350 kW chargers were currently available on selected motorways/major arterial routes, excluding Northern Ireland.

The ASA acknowledged that the evidence provided by Hyundai showed that, under standardised testing conditions (with a new battery and in a temperature-controlled environment with ambient temperatures of 22 and 25 degrees centigrade) the battery could be charged from 10% to 80% in under 18 minutes using a 350kW charger.

However, it said it would expect Hyundai to qualify the charging claim with an explanation of the conditions under which the figures were achieved and that they may not reflect actual consumer experience.

As a result, it ruled that the claims had not been substantiated and were misleading, and the adverts must not appear again."

Another way of looking at this is the average time spent charging.

There are lots of ways of using these things but I've certainly seen numbers like "the typical EV user only uses a commercial charger once in 20 charges" (the rest being done at home or on a "non-commercial charger," such as a work charger. Other numbers suggest an average visit time of just 20 minutes.

 

[Smiley]

Very funny.
You've omitted the word "non" from your quotation of my post

 

[Petrol Pete]

Send in your CV.

They’d love to hire you directly, or to replace all the experts who’ve told them to sell a third of their vehicles in China this year.

Sell them to the Chinese while the Chinese still have money to spend , of course , they don't need me to tell them that .

 

[Deleted member 55947]

Are my eyes deceiving me about the price difference between a new car and one that’s 9 months old?

 

[Petrol Pete]

No they are not . Used 'luxury' EV's don't do too well and MB main dealers have to make room for the new EV's that are being forced on them by MB head office.

 

[MeQ]

View attachment 150961View attachment 150962Are my eyes deceiving me about the price difference between a new car and one that’s 9 months old?

£30,000 depreciation at 8/9months old is where they currently sit.

What deposits did you have set for those figures?

 

[BTB 500]

Are my eyes deceiving me about the price difference between a new car and one that’s 9 months old?

Registered in April and May, so less than 9 months. Don't think there's even been a change in spec. etc. in that time that could have been a factor?

 

[BTB 500]

What deposits did you have set for those figures?

The used ones? You can see for the new ones:

 

[MeQ]

The used ones? You can see for the new ones:
View attachment 150965

Sorry, yes the used ones

 

[markjay]

View attachment 150961View attachment 150962Are my eyes deceiving me about the price difference between a new car and one that’s 9 months old?

My guess is that - again - this has to do with the BIK.

I suspect that the majority of expensive EVs are leased by businesses in order to benefit from the near-zero BIK (and other tax benefits).

But in order to qualify for the tax exemption, the car has to be purchased brand new.

This means that second hand or pre-registered cars are no good for those looking for a car on a business lease.

I am further guessing that the majority of those currently settling into new expensive leased EVs would have never forked-out their own hard earned post-tax cash on one.

This scenario makes it very difficult for dealers to sell their nearly-new and ex-employee high-end EVs.

The logic behind my deduction is that if it was a simple case of these cars being unwanted, then the new ones would have been heavily discounted as well.

The only reason I can think of why a brand new car costs almost twice as much as the same car a few months old, is that buyers must have some advantage in buying brand-new that prevents them from buying nearly-new, and this can only be the BIK.

For a top earner, getting the car on a salary sacrifice scheme means that the monthly lease is almost 45% cheaper than leasing a nearly-new or second-hand one.

This distortion is more likely to have a significant effect on those market segments where cars are disproportionately being leased by businesses and rarely bought outright by private buyers.

This isn't new, BTE. It would be interesting to know how many people here have MB cars with plates starting with a 'K'.

My guess is as followed:

A and B Class - a minority
C and E Class - a fair share
S Class - almost all of them

 

[philnewmerc]

Yes, as you say there will no doubt be plenty of cars not in use that haven’t quite made it to the scrapper:

View attachment 150720

There's an independent test here of an IONIQ 5 with the same 285 mile WLTP range, and at 75 mph they only got 127 miles by taking the battery down to 6%

Hyundai Ioniq 5 Range Tested In The Worst Conditions

Here we have Battery Life's range test of the top of the line version of the car (72.6 kWh, AWD) in pretty bad conditions.

insideevs.com

That was in rain but not particularly cold conditions (12-13C). They calculated a theoretical maximum of 138 miles using the entire pack capacity, which is only 48% of the WLTP figure.

75 mph is obviously illegal in the UK, but with a recommended minimum of 79 mph for a fixed penalty it's not an unusual/unreasonable motorway speed.

It seems that outside of town a pretty good rule of thumb is your EV range will be somewhere between 1/2 to 2/3 of advertised. I think 75mph is a pretty normal middle lane speed (outside of the south east where going above 40 is rare) so having 120 useable miles is pretty crap. But, if there is a good app that directs you to a working available fast charger maybe it's no biggy. Personally I would hate going at sub 70 mph and hate queuing and the uncertain etiquette / lack of around that. NB for my last fill up I got 12 mpg.... Hmmm maybe I'd get used to 120 mile range after all

 

[clk320x]

Just found this…

A great app to disprove those saying that an EV is just as harmful to air quality as it’s filled up with electricity from ‘fossil fuels’…

BTW burning gas in a power station is far more efficient than burning fuels in an ICE…

The UK grid gets cleaner and cleaner year on year.

 

[clk320x]

Oh and it looks like these could hit UK roads soon if the road-safety campaigners get their way…. So that’s the end of the supposed 85mph cruisers who slow down for the gantry…

New anti-braking speed cameras target drivers trying to avoid fines

New devices will penalise drivers who attempt to avoid fines by braking harshly to slow down for speed cameras then speed back up too quickly after passing them.

www.fleetnews.co.uk