The EV fact thread

[clk320x]

when worn out they become landfill. ..... nice.

Wind - Regen Fiber launches innovative method to recycle wind turbine blades - Renewable Energy Magazine, at the heart of clean energy journalism

 

[BTB 500]

For sure there's some, as I said, they don't implement for "most." As you know yourself, you (and I) routinely drive past speed cameras at speeds above the speed limits, and we don't get fines or points.

You can't cruise hundreds of miles at an average of 70mph, as you do, without breaking the limits most of the time

As I said, the police don't use the data that's already there from the cameras that are in place.

Anyone driving at the speed limit on UK motorways and A roads knows that a lot of people drive above the limit.

I've never averaged 70 mph, even driving across Europe with higher motorway speed limits. You could do 200 miles at 75 (well, in an ICE car ), but adding 15 miles each end at 40 would knock the average down to 67.

Of course all car speedometers over-read to some extent - most people who think they are driving at 70 are only doing in the high 60s (although extremely unlikely, an indicated 70 could legally be as low as 58 actual speed).

Anyway, I know plenty of people who have had FPNs from 'instantaneous' speed cameras but not personally a single one who's ever been ticketed in an average speed zone. I'd love to think the BMWs and Audis that hammer along at 30 mph above a 40 or 50 limit then stand on the brakes just before each average speed camera get their comeuppance, but maybe that's just wishful thinking!

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Of course all car speedometers over-read to some extent - most people who think they are driving at 70 are only doing in the high 60s (although extremely unlikely, an indicated 70 could legally be as low as 58 actual speed).
Anyway, I know plenty of people who have had FPNs from 'instantaneous' speed cameras but not personally a single one who's ever been ticketed in an average speed zone. I'd love to think the BMWs and Audis that hammer along at 30 mph above a 40 or 50 limit then stand on the brakes just before each average speed camera get their comeuppance, but maybe that's just wishful thinking!

The self-declared actual "tolerance" quoted by most British police forces is 10% + 2mph. Some quote 10% plus 3 mph. (Well documented thanks to Freedom of Information legislation)

So, in a 70 mph zone, you'd allegedly "need" to be doing more than an actual 79mph to be prosecuted. (That's actual mph, not "on your speedometer" mph, which as you say, understates mph)

In the South East, it's routine to see drivers doing 80+ in a 70, or 58+ in a 50. They're simply not normally prosecuted by speed cameras. Occasionally: yes; normally: no.

And don't even start to suggest that people honour the speed camera'd 20mph urban zones around London: not even the buses keep themselves below 24mph, if they're not forced to by sheer weight of traffic.

 

[BTB 500]

The self-declared actual "tolerance" quoted by most British police forces is 10% + 2mph. Some quote 10% plus 3 mph. (Well documented thanks to Freedom of Information legislation)

So, in a 70 mph zone, you'd allegedly "need" to be doing more than an actual 79mph to be prosecuted. (That's actual mph, not "on your speedometer" mph, which as you say, understates mph)

That's out of date. The current National Police Chiefs Council (NPCC) guidelines have an enforcement threshold of 10% + 2 mph over the posted limit, so you'd get a fixed penalty at 79 mph. The previous ACPO guidance was to issue an FPN at 10% + 3 mph i.e. 80 mph.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

That's out of date. The current National Police Chiefs Council (NPCC) guidelines have an enforcement threshold of 10% + 2 mph over the posted limit, so you'd get a fixed penalty at 79 mph. The previous ACPO guidance was to issue an FPN at 10% + 3 mph i.e. 80 mph.

For sure. That's the National guideline. 1mph faster than the individual police authorities have reported.

Point remains: the police authorities aren't issuing penalties. The evidence is on the Motorways, A roads, B roads and urban rat runs.

People aren't always given points and fines for doing 79 in a 70, or 24 in a 20. They aren't even given points for doing 90 in a 70, or 40 in a 20.

The evidence is all around us.

 

[markjay]

The self-declared actual "tolerance" quoted by most British police forces is 10% + 2mph. Some quote 10% plus 3 mph. (Well documented thanks to Freedom of Information legislation)

So, in a 70 mph zone, you'd allegedly "need" to be doing more than an actual 79mph to be prosecuted. (That's actual mph, not "on your speedometer" mph, which as you say, understates mph)

In the South East, it's routine to see drivers doing 80+ in a 70, or 58+ in a 50. They're simply not normally prosecuted by speed cameras. Occasionally: yes; normally: no.

And don't even start to suggest that people honour the speed camera'd 20mph urban zones around London: not even the buses keep themselves below 24mph, if they're not forced to by sheer weight of traffic.

In spite of the 'guidelines', in London, you get a FPN for doing 21mph in a 20mph Zone - this actually happened to a work colleague and to one of my neighbours.

I would consider the police guidelines as 'airbags' - good to have in place for in case you happen to crash inadvertently, but I still wouldn't crash the car deliberately simply because I rely on the airbags to protect me...

 

[philnewmerc]

For sure. That's the National guideline. 1mph faster than the individual police authorities have reported.

Point remains: the police authorities aren't issuing penalties. The evidence is on the Motorways, A roads, B roads and urban rat runs.

People aren't always given points and fines for doing 79 in a 70, or 24 in a 20. They aren't even given points for doing 90 in a 70, or 40 in a 20.

The evidence is all around us.

Can anyone let me know which speed cameras are usually on and usually off because I have always wondered why medium sized Audis and Vauxhalls (rich and poor muppet-mobiles in my experience) can hammer down average speed zones without a care in the world. Personally I wouldn't as I respect people at work but for most driving I assumed they were on. I've certainly had tickets...

 

[Noitz]

Can anyone let me know which speed cameras are usually on and usually off because I have always wondered why medium sized Audis and Vauxhalls (rich and poor muppet-mobiles in my experience) can hammer down average speed zones without a care in the world. Personally I wouldn't as I respect people at work but for most driving I assumed they were on. I've certainly had tickets...

Perhaps they're using cloned plates? Unfortunately there's a lot of that type of skullduggery going on these days.

 

[markjay]

Can anyone let me know which speed cameras are usually on and usually off because I have always wondered why medium sized Audis and Vauxhalls (rich and poor muppet-mobiles in my experience) can hammer down average speed zones without a care in the world. Personally I wouldn't as I respect people at work but for most driving I assumed they were on. I've certainly had tickets...

On the A40 in West London, there are average speed cameras, but not all exits are covered by a camera, and so if you know which exits are 'clean' you can speed up to that exit and leave the A40 before the next camera. I often see cars speeding along certain stretches and so I assume that's what they're doing.

 

[BTB 500]

For sure. That's the National guideline. 1mph faster than the individual police authorities have reported.

Other way round - the nationally recommended enforcement threshold dropped by 1 mph in 2013. Some individual forces/services may still use the previous guidelines but I wouldn't count on it ... 10% + 2 may well get you a FPN now in many (most?) parts of the UK.

Point remains: the police authorities aren't issuing penalties. The evidence is on the Motorways, A roads, B roads and urban rat runs.

People aren't always given points and fines for doing 79 in a 70, or 24 in a 20. They aren't even given points for doing 90 in a 70, or 40 in a 20.

The evidence is all around us.

Not sure about that. Motorways are statistically very low risk so it's entirely possible the NSL enforcement threshold is set higher than 10% + 2 on those (it was long rumoured that the ones on the M25 were set to 100 mph). I suspect though that normal guidelines (or close to them) would apply when lower limits are posted on Smart/VSL motorways as these restrictions are generally safety related. I certainly see a lot of camera flashes on the opposite carriageway when traffic is heavy. Not guaranteed that flash = ticket of course but as I understand it the process is very slick and largely automated now ... a far cry from a finite number of 35mm frames per camera which then had to be manually examined.

As we all know you can get a FPN for doing even 1 mph over the limit, and while I think that's pretty rare quite a few people have mentioned being ticketed at below the normal tolerance in some non-motorway situations. IMHO it would be mad to intentionally go past a fixed camera at 90.

 

[BTB 500]

Can anyone let me know which speed cameras are usually on and usually off because I have always wondered why medium sized Audis and Vauxhalls (rich and poor muppet-mobiles in my experience) can hammer down average speed zones without a care in the world. Personally I wouldn't as I respect people at work but for most driving I assumed they were on. I've certainly had tickets...

You have been ticketed for exceeding an average speed limit? If so what was the limit and your speed?

AFAIK all cameras are 'on' nowadays (they can't run out of film any more), but as above I suspect they may sometimes be set to a higher than normal trigger threshold particularly when a 70 limit applies.

 

[clk320x]

You have been ticketed for exceeding an average speed limit? If so what was the limit and your speed?

AFAIK all cameras are 'on' nowadays (they can't run out of film any more), but as above I suspect they may sometimes be set to a higher than normal trigger threshold particularly when a 70 limit applies.

My cousin got a ticket at 58mph on the M1 roadworks average speed check zone, back in 2021.

 

[BTB 500]

My cousin got a ticket at 58mph on the M1 roadworks average speed check zone, back in 2021.

Assuming it was a 50 limit that makes sense - a fixed penalty would be recommended at that speed under both the current and previous national guidelines (FPN from 57 mph and 58 mph respectively).

 

[clk320x]

Assuming it was a 50 limit that makes sense - a fixed penalty would be recommended at that speed under both the current and previous national guidelines (FPN from 57 mph and 58 mph respectively).

Yes it was a 50 limit.

 

[190]

I drove over the M62 to Yorkshire on Christmas eve. The weather was foul over the top with strong winds and rain. There is a spot at the Scammoden dam which is notorious for cross winds so that's presumably why they had been posting reducing limits 60, 50 and finally 40mph for many miles all the way along the uphill drag. Not a single vehicle slowed to anything close to 40 mph including a very high sided HGV.

The problem is a disconnect between excessively cautious speed limits and disbelieving drivers who have seen it all a hundred times before where overhead signs have displayed what seemed to them a fictious hazard that didn't exist.

I rather think the hazard did exist on this occasion at least for the HGV, but the signs had cried wolf far too often for anyone to take any notice. Not wanting to risk getting squashed for Christmas, the one bit of good sense I did display was to make sure I was passing the tall HGV on it's windward side.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

AFAIK all cameras are 'on' nowadays (they can't run out of film any more), but as above I suspect they may sometimes be set to a higher than normal trigger threshold particularly when a 70 limit applies.

This is tedious

My point was simple: if you look out of your windscreen you can see people driving in excess of the speed limits plus police forgiveness allowances. Just use your eyes.

If the police were prosecuting “normally” for speeding, there would be millions of drivers banned. They aren’t. Being prosecuted is a random, unfair process.

The police repeatedly acknowledge that a substantial number of cameras are switched off. Others are working but their results aren’t processed. The police, courts and public could not stomach the result if the cameras were all working.

The evidence is on the roads around us all. Especially at low speed but also at high speed.

Almost half of fixed speed cameras 'not working'

 

[BTB 500]

This is tedious

Almost half of fixed speed cameras 'not working'

Not everything online is accurate and current The article you have linked to is 2 years old. But in fact it's a regularly recycled item that was first published in 2017, based on a FOI request send out to Police forces some time before that. So the data is likely to be 8 or so years out of date now - a *lot* of digital HADECS speed cameras (the ones that need no markings on the road surface) have been installed on motorways etc. in that time, both new sites and replacing the old gantry cameras that were often out of service.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Not everything online is accurate and current The article you have linked to is 2 years old. But in fact it's a regularly recycled item that was first published in 2017, based on a FOI request send out to Police forces some time before that. So the data is likely to be 8 or so years out of date now - a *lot* of digital HADECS speed cameras (the ones that need no markings on the road surface) have been installed on motorways etc. in that time, both new sites and replacing the old gantry cameras that were often out of service.

"My point was simple: if you look out of your windscreen you can see people driving in excess of the speed limits plus police forgiveness allowances. Just use your eyes."


.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Just use your eyes.

But if you don't get out much, see this press release from October 2023.

This covers inactive cameras. In addition to this it's equally clear that "active cameras" do not always result in a warning or prosecution.

Road Angel Uncovers National Speed Camera Scandal

 

[clk320x]

Just use your eyes.

But if you don't get out much, see this press release from October 2023.

This covers inactive cameras. In addition to this it's equally clear that "active cameras" do not always result in a warning or prosecution.

Road Angel Uncovers National Speed Camera Scandal

View attachment 151120

This is fair enough Mike, but important to mention motorway HADECs are managed by Highways England and all are live?