The worst bit of luck?

[Tidybeard]

It's all about the targets, sadly. I was done over the Xmas holidays for using my phone while driving. I drove past a Police car parked behind a hedge while plugging my phone into the charger. The guy saw me do it, pulled me over and told me he saw me on my phone at which point I showed him my (fully integrated Bluetooth) car kit and the call records to show I hadn't been on the phone.

He then asked if I denied holding it and I said no. He explained that they "had a campaign on" over the holidays and that it was an offence to be holding the phone so I was done anyway.

Not a leg to stand on, no defence for me so I said nothing and accepted the fine and points (had a clean licence up until that point having averaged 40,000 miles a year for the last 12 years).

I have learned that pleasant politeness always goes a long way so I acted courteously but I do wonder if I might have been let off if I hadn't been driving a week old fully taxed and insured A4 Cabriolet with the roof down on a nice day.....

I used to get angry about this type of thing but I have now just accepted my lot as a powerless high taxpaying cash cow. I do not have any recourse or ability to speak for myself so why bother getting stressed over it?

Oh, hello by the way. I now have an E320CDI

 

[R129mine]

Oh, hello by the way. I now have an E320CDI

hello to you and nice car

 

[DansSlk]

Some offences just do not lend themselves to the use of this discretion and using a hand-held mobile phone whilst driving is now one of them.
Worst case scenario: this driver, whilst using his phone and reversing on a one-way street runs over a pedestrian behind him (who's not expecting traffic from that direction) kills said pedestrian and is proved to be using mobile phone. Likely conviction would be Death by Dangerous Driving and potentially a long prison sentence. Extreme I accept but possible.
Damned if you do etc etc

I wouldn't bother trying to defend the indefensible mate, at the end of the day there are some bloody stupid laws about today and the phone bit is one of them but regardless of what 2 year old thought them up they are now law's and its your job to enforce them.

Simple as, your just doing your job and thats that.

 

[glojo]

Traffic Law is, by and large, black and white. However, there is plenty of scope within it for officer discretion -and this gets used a lot more frequently then some posters on this forum would believe or want to accept.
Some offences just do not lend themselves to the use of this discretion and using a hand-held mobile phone whilst driving is now one of them.
Worst case scenario: this driver, whilst using his phone and reversing on a one-way street runs over a pedestrian behind him (who's not expecting traffic from that direction) kills said pedestrian and is proved to be using mobile phone. Likely conviction would be Death by Dangerous Driving and potentially a long prison sentence. Extreme I accept but possible.
Damned if you do etc etc

I accept what your saying but we are discussing someone that has all but reached their final goal. It was the end of the game, there illegal activity was all but over and this punishment is not going to change the person's habit! (To me that is what a system should be about) I fully accept there are any number of what if's and what could have happened but the bottom line was the man was just yards away from his destination where he fully intended spending a lot of money to eradicate this bad habit once and for all. Surely that is why we punish folks? (to attempt to reform)

Yes I accept he was wrong but I will never accept laws are black and white. We try to quote traffic laws being black and white and I will simply ask how many times do we see the police actually reporting parents that park their cars on the zig zags outside our schools? The law is black and white, the ramifications of this extremely dangerous occurrence is obvious to us all, but not so obvious perhaps to the police? traffic law black and white

Hammer anyone that blatantly uses a mobile phone whilst driving

Sorry to go off on one but........

take care and come down here to patrol outside our schools

regards
John

 

[Dieselman]

It's all about the targets, sadly.

I do wonder if I might have been let off if I hadn't been driving a week old fully taxed and insured A4 Cabriolet with the roof down on a nice day.....

Hi and welcome and I agree, nice car.

I doubt the car made any difference other than the Police could see you more clearly with the roof down, you might have not been spotted if it was up.
Are you talking about a fixed phone holder or plugging in a charging lead?

Whilst we all think that using a mobile doesn't affect our driving, I'd beg to differ having witnessed an accident as the result of someone using a phone. They probably thought their driving was Ok but it resulted in three written off cars. That's not an exaggeration, I'm just glad he didn't hit me.

 

[RedDog]

Had a customer come over today to collect a phone cradle.

He got a bit lost and turned down a one way road. Realising his mistake he decided to reverse a bit whilst talking to me on the phone Traffic car.......

I think the unlucky thing here is the fact that it was a TRAFFIC CAR ! They are known in the job as Black Rats. If it had been normal coppers he might have been lucky enough to get off with a warning. However when all is said and done he committed an offence, he was caught and so he has to take the pain. But we all know life is bl**dy UNFAIR

 

[Tidybeard]

Thank you (to Dieselman). I really like the car, in fact I just spent 20 minutes typing a review of it in comparison to other cars I've owned and even though I was logged in when I tried to submit the thread it told me I wasn't and bounced me back to the posting screen which was then blank. Entire review gone and I can't be bothered typing it all in again

The charger in question was a cigarette lighter charger (the car kit was a parrott bluetooth so no charging cradle).

I've seen some awful accidents (and driving) caused by people being on the phone and I agree that it's really dangerous. Every day I go out on the motorway I know I'll see at least a couple of people weaving around while on the phone.
Personally, I've always had car kits installed in all my cars before I collect them to avoid temptation.

For me, it boils down to this - the copper was just doing his job. He isn't given the opportunity to use discretion any more because he has to solve a specific number of crimes, just as I am measured in my job. The problems lie much higher up and I'm very unhappy about the state of the UK now, but as I'm personally not prepared to take to the streets and riot, I don't feel qualified to complain about it (my philosophy is either do something about a problem or stop complaining about it).

I've browsed this forum for quite a while and I know we all get annoyed about a lot of things but there really isn't anything we can do, frustrating as it is, so why worry?

 

[timskemp]

Thank you (to Dieselman). I really like the car, in fact I just spent 20 minutes typing a review of it in comparison to other cars I've owned and even though I was logged in when I tried to submit the thread it told me I wasn't and bounced me back to the posting screen which was then blank. Entire review gone and I can't be bothered typing it all in again

If I'm ever making a long post I always copy the text to clipboard before hitting submit....

 

[Tidybeard]

Thanks Tim, I did that with the next one

 

[raymont]

Because they are illegal. It used to be ok to drive while drunk

This is a massive over simplification.

I think using a mobile while driving is dangerous and am, in general, happy to see this enforced. I say in general because in this case a bit of police discretion would have been the way to go.

Lots of things are illegal . Things which the police do nothing about, or in fact do themselves. For example, ever seen a police car parked on double yellows or exceeding a speed limit? I’m sure you have. It’s against the law. Someone else has pointed out parking on zig zags near school being ignored by police. I’ve seen that too. It’s against the law. I’ve even seen police drivers using their two way radio whilst driving. It’s against the law. If it’s so simple why don’t the police charge themselves?

Many of the things that people, including the police, do are against the law but are often relatively harmless and as such would benefit from an unofficial warning or the like. Drunk driving is against the law and should be met with no mercy. Travelling at 50mph at 2am on a deserted street with a 40 limit is against the law. To suggest that both are equally wrong is ridiculous.

The police need the support of the majority of law abiding citizens. They are rapidly losing it because of unsympathetic treatment of motorists.

 

[richard]

In the old days when I worked 24 hours a day 7 days a week building a business I used to find myself having driven from Wimbledon to Lightwater on the phone to America and not remembering a thing from the journey. Now i'm (a) not knackered all the time (b) 10 years older, I realise how bad that is and generally avoid phone use whilst driving even though all the cars I use have bluetooth so I cant forget to plug the phone in.


So Im in support of the principle of the law that says dont use a hand held phone whilst driving - however, in reality whether its hand-held or handsfree causes at least part of your brain to be focussed on the phone conversation and not the road. But banning phone use in cars would be politically unacceptable. And the law as it is probably reduces phone usage whilst driving considerably.

However, the implementation (or interpretation) of the law, where it is illegal to remove a phone from your pocket and plug it into a car kit to use it (a friend got stopped, and correct discretion was used by the police officer in his case) is madness. - you are doing that action to comply with the law, which should be applauded not slapped.

If plugging in your phone is in fact dangerous, lighting a cigarette is even more. To hit on the emotional nerves of those who smoke, it seems that smoking whilst driving should be banned. (but actually I suspect not allowing someone who has the urge to smoke whilsy driving to have the cigarette is more dangerous!)- of course, again this is all about the politics of what can and what cant be implemented , and what are easy targets to raise more money.

I suspect this chap got noticed because he reversed down the street, If he hadnt done 2 things 'wrong' he wouldnt have been noticed. He did know he was breaking the law, and thus took a calculated risk though.

Richard

 

[glojo]

Humble pie time.....

Pammy and partner are great friends of us all and I'm guilty of referring to one of their posts that might be taken as a personal dig

It aint

I apologise.

Regards
John

 

[oldcro]

Lots of times I have read here that smoking while driving should be banned. Now people have been driving while smoking for longer than anyone here has lived. The number of accidents caused through smoking is minute compared to those caused by mobile phone use, yet many are asking for another law to be introduced. Sour grapes? or a genuine wish to make the roads safer? I don't know, but if we are trying to make the roads safer then surely we must back the police officer in doing his duty.

Before anyone asks, yes I do smoke and have done for over 50 years. I also smoked while driving for 49 years without an accident or near miss due to smoking. I decided to stop smoking in the car when I bought the mercedes, not for any reason other than to see if I could do it and so far I do NOT now smoke while driving.

John

 

[oldcro]

Laws are only introduced when there is a reason. Using a mobile phone was quite legal until people using them had accidents resulting in people getting injured and killed by drivers using their phones at the time.

Discretion is used if the offence was considered unintentional as opposed to being deliberate. Driving at slightly over 70mph on a motorway is an offence by law but as it could happen unintentionally say on a downhill section could be overlooked. Picking up a mobile phone to make or answer a call is a deliberate illegal act which leaves no room for discretion.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

John

 

[glojo]

Smoking whilst driving
Don't have an opinion on any new legislation although my head tells me its not required, but if a smoker needs a cigarette then we are asking they pull over and stop. Is that going to happen?

What I hate with a passion though is IGNORANT smokers that discard their cigarettes out of the window! Now that bikers have full face helmets they no longer catch these items in the face, but yes, very rarely these cigarette ends do enter the clothing of bikers and more important LGV's (HGV's) In summer we see straw or hay being transported and sometimes these loads catch light. Yup it is sometimes caused by ignorant drivers throwing out cigarette ends. Yes it will sometimes be the truck driver themselves, but sometimes it will be other road users. If we must smoke then believe it or not, most vehicles have ash trays to put the discarded cigarettes in, and headlining to absorb the horrible smoke

Regards
John the exponent of discretion

 

[UnMarked]

Humble pie time.....

Pammy and partner are great friends of us all and I'm guilty of referring to one of their posts that might be taken as a personal dig

It aint

I apologise.

Regards
John

No offence taken by either of us John - it's healthy debate we reckon (and we've both got skin like rhino-hide after all!)

 

[amwebby]

In the old days when I worked 24 hours a day 7 days a week building a business I used to find myself having driven from Wimbledon to Lightwater on the phone to America and not remembering a thing from the journey.

I take your point about phone use distracting one Richard but, for 18 months I used to drive regularly between London and Leeds, for the most part not on the phone, yet I did the journey on autopilot so much I could never remember anything from the journey when I arrived.

 

[st13phil]

What fascinates me about the distraction debate is that different people have different capacities for carrying out a complex task such as driving while also concentrating on another task.

An extreme example I know, but Michael Schumacher (and Alain Prost before him) could drive an F1 car absolutely on the limit while discussing in detail with his pit crew the minutiae of race strategy and tactics. They had the capacity to concentrate on at least two very complex tasks and perform at 100% on both simultaneously. Police Class 1 drivers are expected to be able to give a detailed commentary about what they observe while driving. Ever tried doing that? It's not easy at first but becomes easier once you train yourself to do it, and some people find that easier to do than others.

The law on using hand-held mobile phones while driving was enacted to provide the Police the necessarily narrow offence definition to secure an easy conviction against transgressors. It's much harder to secure a conviction based upon an officer's observation that somone wasn't in proper control of their vehicle which was the case before the new offence was created.

There are two issues with this though: 1) Some people are very capable of communicating on a phone (or a two-way radio, which is exempt ) while driving without their driving performance deteriorating; 2) If there's a mobile phone anywhere in the cabin of a car then in practice the driver has no defence whatsoever against an incorrect accusation by a Police officer that they were using it as a hand-held.

Yet another traffic law with good intentions, but badly enacted.

 

[oldcro]

Smoking whilst driving
Don't have an opinion on any new legislation although my head tells me its not required, but if a smoker needs a cigarette then we are asking they pull over and stop. Is that going to happen?

What I hate with a passion though is IGNORANT smokers that discard their cigarettes out of the window! Now that bikers have full face helmets they no longer catch these items in the face, but yes, very rarely these cigarette ends do enter the clothing of bikers and more important LGV's (HGV's) In summer we see straw or hay being transported and sometimes these loads catch light. Yup it is sometimes caused by ignorant drivers throwing out cigarette ends. Yes it will sometimes be the truck driver themselves, but sometimes it will be other road users. If we must smoke then believe it or not, most vehicles have ash trays to put the discarded cigarettes in, and headlining to absorb the horrible smoke

Regards
John the exponent of discretion

I could not agree more, and do not ever throw anything out of the car window. Neither do I leave any litter wherever I go, but that is a separate subject. I think we agree, smokers and even non-smokers who throw things out of car windows are ignorant morons, and lite cigarette ends are an additional hazard we can all do without.

With due respect.

John

 

[fuzzer]

There are two issues with this though: 1) Some people are very capable of communicating on a phone (or a two-way radio, which is exempt ) while driving without their driving performance deteriorating; 2) If there's a mobile phone anywhere in the cabin of a car then in practice the driver has no defence whatsoever against an incorrect accusation by a Police officer that they were using it as a hand-held.

Yet another traffic law with good intentions, but badly enacted.

i keep my mobile in the boot for this reason.