Thought provoking Driving Thread

[Uberwagon]

The original post does lend itself to thinking this way David and for a while I thought the same.

However having kept on reading and seen the various points in the thread where despite admitting fault on the one hand, the OP was deliberately vague where it mattered and then even suggested that he wasn't moving on impact. Coupled with a few other comments it became quite clear that he was trying to shift some of the blame or at the very least add some doubt to the true cause of the incident.

His side of the story simply does not add up, if it did, I agree with what you say wholeheartedly but once I realised that he's still not facing up to the truth I think the only really sobering part of the story is that the system has failed and justice has still not yet been served.. not at least until TPS *really* holds his hands up or completes his full sentence.

He took ten days short of a year to finally plead guilty. How much extra pressure did this put on the victim and family I wonder?

You seem to forget that he has a family too.

I've gone very wide on a corner in my over excited youth, read the road wrong, similar incident could have happened. Doesn't make me a better or worse person, just a lucky one. I suspect similar things have happened to others.

I see no point where he hasn't told the truth, hasn't admitted his mistakes etc.

There is a fine line between Driving without due care and attention and dangerous driving. He made a misjudgement, through over-enthusiasm, an improperly sighted section by him or just a lapse of concentration, it may have a dangerous outcome but isn't necessarily dangerous driving.

If I was given 2 choices and one would mean less impact on my family, i'd take it, he doesn't seem to have lied or mislead anyone.

Do you ride a motorbike at all ?

Dave!

 

[crockers]

Sometimes we can read more into a post than was originally intended. That's the danger of the written word over a verbal discussion.

 

[stats007]

Spike, please read the entire thread - including everyone elses posts and you might understand why.

 

[pipmk]

Uberwagon,nothing should be read into it taking many months to come to sentence. It has little or nothing to do with the accused but reflects court overloading and the time it takes to assemble expert evidence. There is little that can or should be done to speed it up. Imagine "well Mr X, we know you are only half way through your defence but the time allocated for this trial is now up"
This story is an object lesson to all those here and elsewhere who a. like "pushing the envelope" (what a vacuous phrase) and b. think gaol is a holiday camp. Read,learn and inwardly digest.

 

[Dieselman]

To be honest those of you that are questioning who's at fault are completely missing the point - have you even read the entire post?

Yes.!

Nothing could be proven regarding the technicalities of the accident so why are you even pretending to know more than the people involved with it?

Simply correcting a poster on here's opinion that the motorcyclist was some way at fault. The O/p (Dan) insists the crash was 100% his fault but some people want to try to put some blame onto the biker.

Where's the rep points when you need them?

They would've been used up a long time ago.

 

[stevesey]

He took ten days short of a year to finally plead guilty. How much extra pressure did this put on the victim and family I wonder?

Sp!ke you are mis-representing the situation there - it was 10 days short of a year that he stood up in court and entered a plea or guilty.

In his first post he say's he admitted guilt at the scene. After that it would have been a fair while before he even knew what charge the CPS would finally go with. The timing of the event you quote has very little to do with 10 pence and far more to do with the legal system.

 

[CE230]

Interesting topic. As a committee member of the world's foremost association for disabled bikers I am acquainted with a fair few bikers whose lives have been ruined by the actions of others, and some by their own actions as well as those disabled from birth or illness. It appears that the rider being talked about has a brachial plexus injury and that often means amputation at some stage, but not always. His injuries are no doubt making his life a very painful experience and will be for the foreseeable future and this will impact on the life of his family too. I am amazed at the attitude of bikers with severe disabling injuries and most of them still want to get back on their bikes as soon as they can regardless of what caused their injuries and some of the tales they tell would bring tears to the eyes of a Taleban. The humour is unbelivable, how anyone can joke about the difference betweeen a carbon fibre or glass fibre prosthetic?

I have also been sent base over apex on numerous ocassions by cagers totally at fault, I've not had an accident where it wsn't actually.

Knowing the devastation caused by bad driving 12 months wasn't long enough, 5 years minimum I would say.

 

[10 Pence Short]

Thank you all for your comments, hopefully by posting the information I did some people will avoid getting hurt, be that emotionally or physically.

Obviously my description of what happened has provoked some conversations and, unintentionally, maybe I didn't describe everything in perfect detail that allowed all the theorists room for conjecture.

First thing, the motorcyclist couldn't have done anything to avoid the collision. There is no suggestion his speed or positioning on the road was to blame. The topography of the road at that point meant he had between 1 and 2 seconds to react and take avoiding action.

On my speed, I lost control on the left hand part of a right/left combination of bends. The angle of the bends means I couldn't have approached or attempted to take them at any more than 65-70mph. What was my speed as I entered the bend? I don't know. I do know on the straight sections preceeding those bends I had been going faster than that. According to the Collision Investigation Unit report, they were not able to calculate a speed, as all four wheels had continued to rotate throughout.

Why did the car let go? That's a question I've asked myself many times. But the point is, I shouldn't have been going so fast as to reach that limit on the road.

To put my driving experience at the time into context, I was on paper fairly well trained. I'd been doing 65,000 miles a year professionally, without problem, I'd done various defensive/fast road driving courses (mostly using ex-Class 1 Police instructors), had a decent chunk of track time, an MSA race licence, done autotests and wet skid pan training (at Durham Police HQ), many trackdays (including in the Integra I went on to crash) and so on.

Maybe that was part of the problem? I had built up this opinion of my driving that I was never going to have a big accident. I was so complacent and, worse than that, I was being complacent with other people's lives.


Finally- my position on pleading guilty (or not). I was interviewed by the roadside by an officer, during which I fully admitted guilt. Three months later, I was first interviewed under caution, then once again in the September. That arrogance didn't just disappear the moment I clambered out of the car, it took time to sink in what I'd done and how I was responsible.

My first instinct, at first interview, was to deny I'd been driving dangerously. I didn't believe I had- it was arrogance and a warped thought process. Even at the second interview, I was still not fully open to the truth of it.

Finally, in December, I was summonsed to Magistrates for a plea hearing. At that hearing I pleaded Not Guilty, because only moments before the CPS handed the evidence bundle. Whilst it would have been morally more upstanding, it would have been legally naive to plead guilty without first seeing the evidence against me. I wasn't the kind of person used to dealing with the Courts or solicitors, so I stuck to the advice I was given at the time.

As soon as the case committed to Crown, and I had the first plea hearing, I pleaded guilty- having seen the evidence, assessed how I felt and taken legal advice. Considering I did have a significant other, and family to consider, would I have willingly gone to prison? No. I'm not a big enough man to pretend I would. Had I had a chance of staying with them, rather than putting them through hell, I would have taken that option. I think most people, even the decent ones, would have done the same.


So why did I put all this information in the public domain? It was a simple thought process- I ruined the lives of a lot of people by my driving. Not just the motorcyclist, but his whole family and friend network. And the life of my other half, and our families who had to deal with this. There were no winners, just losers. The only positive I could bring out of the whole thing is to share the experience, so maybe some other people don't have to go through it.

Thank you for reading.

Dan

 

[Druk]

Amazing and sobering story. Thanks for sharing. Can I ask what brought you onto here? Just bought a Merc or did someone point you at the criticism?

 

[10 Pence Short]

I was Googling for something related to the original thread on Pistonheads, and saw this entry listed. It was probably one of the most sensible and reasoned threads (on both sides of the debate) I'd read on the subject, so thought I owed it a reply.

 

[Rayny]

Dan,
Many thanks for coming here and giving your comment.
I read the thread on Pistonheads some time ago and it reinforced my thoughts about bends and blind spots on the roads. I'm sure that your 'diary' has probably saved at least one person from being either a victim of, or a driver who has caused, a life changing road incident.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

I think that this 10 Pence Short is being given too much of an easy ride.

Even now he admits to not pleading guilty at the earliest opportunity because it would have been 'legally naive' to. Then once he realises that he is bang to rights- he pleads guilty! Making the victim of his dangerous driving suffer even more! Then to help clear his own selfish conscience writes a letter to said victim!
If all of his posts weren't so eloquent and were instead riddled with spelling mistakes and the like, would people have been so forgiving?
The way he recalls every little bit of information from the accident is disturbing.

 

[Bellow]

..

 

[Bellow]

Bottled out of posting the full post I intended. It was similar to Dans.
Instead, all I say is that after a big shunt involving other road users, the emotions that follow are very mixed and confusing making the response to what ensues legally very difficult.
Possibly a serious RTA cannot be imagined - only reflected on by those who principally caused it. It's a hell of a way to learn. Hopefully some of what Dan has written can be taken on board and save some from what is a very brutal and soul searching lesson in life.
None of us are invincible.

 

[alanuk400]

I think that this 10 Pence Short is being given too much of an easy ride.

Even now he admits to not pleading guilty at the earliest opportunity because it would have been 'legally naive' to. Then once he realises that he is bang to rights- he pleads guilty! Making the victim of his dangerous driving suffer even more! Then to help clear his own selfish conscience writes a letter to said victim!
If all of his posts weren't so eloquent and were instead riddled with spelling mistakes and the like, would people have been so forgiving?
The way he recalls every little bit of information from the accident is disturbing.

Disagree with you

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Disagree with you

You disagree that I think he has had an easy ride?
Just because you show remorse for something, doesn't make it better....

 

[kwakdonut]

Disagree with you

Please give your reasons

 

[MOCAŠ]

I don't believe he's been given an easy ride as such. I think those who have thanked him (myself included) or sympathised with him have done so on the basis of what he has written, and in appreciation of the fact that he has bothered to write it at all. The fact that he expressed his feelings so eloquently certainly plays a part in that, but it would be churlish to hold that against him, just as it would be equally churlish to criticise him for not having such a good command of written English, were that the case.

I haven't read all of the posts on pistonheads, not yet anyway. I read his intial ones, plus his diary entries for the first two days, and was impressed with his first hand account of something that, hopefully, few of us will ever experience ourselves. Reading on, I got as far as the posts where he was discussing having his electronic tag removed and then beginning to enjoy being free of his curfew, and I have to admit to being disappointed with the air of triumphalism in those posts. On the one hand, I can understand how significant an event this must have been for him personally, but it was difficult to read it knowing that the other party in the accident could not regain his independence so easily.

Yet, the fact remains that 10 pence short could have chosen to write absolutely nothing, or he could have chosen only to write that which he felt would engender a sympathetic response. Instead, he seems to have withheld little, and written as objective an account as any I have ever read of such an incident and its aftermath. Admittedly it is a one-sided account, although he has at least acknowledged the biker's side of events in his own writings.

He has also taken the trouble to explain those actions that might appear questionable: why he was reluctant to contact the biker; and why he agonised over the guilty plea. Had he steadfastly insisted on entering a guilty plea throughout, no doubt some would be saying that it was only a ploy to gain a more lenient sentence. We may not agree with the justifications he has given, and we may feel we would have acted differently in his shoes, but which of us really knows – and for that matter, ever wants to find out?

I'm prepared to take his reasons for writing his account at face value, in that it may help others think twice about what consequences their actions might have. I suspect we've all taken chances on the road at one time or another, or thanked our lucky stars that we've got away with a close shave. On another day, or in another place, we could have found ourselves in an equally serious situation.

I would also like to counter the notion in post 46 that "very few road incidents are accidents in the true sense of the word". I would suggest that in the true sense of the word, almost all of them are, including this one. The fact is that most accidents are avoidable or preventable, and many occur as a result of a deliberate action, but none of this prevents the outcome from being accidental. In this case, there's little doubt that the driver was deliberately speeding, and that he chose to overtake when it was unsafe to do so, but that's a far cry from saying that he deliberately crashed into the bike. On the evidence presented, the crash was an accident caused by the driver's poor judgement, or recklessness.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Thank you Mocas for that. It's a bit clearer now.
I suppose my gripe isn't so much with him, more with some of the hypocrisy that surrounds the whole affair.... It doesn't take to long to search this forum to come up with some rather harsh views on punishment, yet when someone who can transfer the thoughts and feelings steps up, they are lauded for it. So I hope you can see it from my viewpoint.
My Dads best friend was killed when he was on his motorbike by someone, so maybe it is too emotive a subject for me to look at this from an objective point of view.

 

[Bellow]

It doesn't take to long to search this forum to come up with some rather harsh views on punishment,.

Or flagrant flouting of the law...