What would you do to restore Mercedes reputation as a ‘Premium’ manufacturer?

[Deleted member 126251]

Many years ago when after-market sunroofs were all the rage, it was easy to tell what metal cut out came from a Mercedes. It was so much thicker ( therefore stronger) than any other make of car.

Do you remember vinyl roofs?

 

[Petrol Pete]

However, while I do understand your point, MB (like the rest) are moving with the times & it must be working for them. Forum members post their car details with every marketing slogan attached.

"XYZ200 CLI AMG line, Adblue, premium plus, executive with go faster stripes......."

Rorywquin I might change mine to "C55 AMG wagon, the most expensive C class available in 2006 at £50K+ that has signs of rust on all 4 wheel arches and the boot lid, where SWMBO 2004 Zafira and my 2006 Toyota Yaris have no signs of rust. But at least mine is a 'real' AMG . "

PS I still think it's a stonking AMG car for the money. Fixing the rust properly will probably cost almost as much as the car is worth. But thats a decision for the future.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

If I had been senior in MB I would have been very precious about the use of AMG. (Similarly at BMW I would have been precious about the use of MSport).

Genuine question: Why would you be precious about it, and how would it creat value for shareholders.

I can see why they’ve used it. It sells more cars, and enables a larger margin, and that’s what senior people in Mercedes are there to do.

I’m fairly confident that the introduction of AMG line models hasn’t negatively affected the sales of “full” AMG models, they may have even sold more.

 

[HB]

I'm aware of the technical branding difference between 'AMG' and 'AMG Line'. My grief is that the term 'AMG line' is a bit of marketo-wa**ko-cr*p-speak that diishes AMG.

I think the very presence of any discussion of 'AMG Line' and 'AMG' demonstrates just how cheap and silly it was to take the branding 'AMG' and apply it in this way to mainstream models augmented with some extra trim.

If I had been senior in MB I would have been very precious about the use of AMG. (Similarly at BMW I would have been precious about the use of MSport).

As you will already know it’s here in the U.K. where the biggest market for the AMG line exists. Go into Europe/Turkey etc and normal Mercs look like, normal Mercs whereas here, a few idiots with AMG badges on the car from the factory genuinely think they have a real AMG.

 

[HB]

Genuine question: Why would you be precious about it, and how would it creat value for shareholders.

I can see why they’ve used it. It sells more cars, and enables a larger margin, and that’s what senior people in Mercedes are there to do.

I’m fairly confident that the introduction of AMG line models hasn’t negatively affected the sales of “full” AMG models, they may have even sold more.

Absolutely correct from a business point of view and yes the sales would have increased but, it upsets some owners of real AMGs.

 

[Dryce]

Genuine question: Why would you be precious about it, and how would it creat value for shareholders.

I can see why they’ve used it. It sells more cars, and enables a larger margin, and that’s what senior people in Mercedes are there to do.

I’m fairly confident that the introduction of AMG line models hasn’t negatively affected the sales of “full” AMG models, they may have even sold more.

I think it does diminish the name AMG (or M branding for BMW).

Not instantaneously. But over a number of years.

If the cars with the AMG Line and MSport designation always had a performance feature over and above the underlying model then it would not devalue them so much IMO.

In the case of BMW owners I have talked to those who have MSport models do some do think that they have a car with a hotter drivetrain and suspension than the non-MSport designations. Sometimes they actually do - but too often apart from the likes of black window trim instead of chrome or different alloys there isn't.

The thing is that MB had this well sorted 10 to 15 years ago with the Elegance, AvantGarde, and Sport designations. But the new generation of marketerrs decided they knew better,

 

[noogieman]

Are you a senior manager in a multi-national company?

I'm the master of my domain

 

[Dippo]

The thing is that MB had this well sorted 10 to 15 years ago with the Elegance, AvantGarde, and Sport designations. But the new generation of marketerrs decided they knew better,

If you weren't a Mercedes fan, would you have known what any of those labels was meant to represent, and where it stood in comparison to the others (OK - Sport's a bit of a giveaway)?

 

[Deleted member 126251]

I think it does diminish the name AMG (or M branding for BMW).

Not instantaneously. But over a number of years.

If the cars with the AMG Line and MSport designation always had a performance feature over and above the underlying model then it would not devalue them so much IMO.

In the case of BMW owners I have talked to those who have MSport models do some do think that they have a car with a hotter drivetrain and suspension than the non-MSport designations. Sometimes they actually do - but too often apart from the likes of black window trim instead of chrome or different alloys there isn't.

The thing is that MB had this well sorted 10 to 15 years ago with the Elegance, AvantGarde, and Sport designations. But the new generation of marketerrs decided they knew better,

I think that the fact that they are making those little 4 pot, 2L cheap (compared to the V8s) AMGs card diminishes the AMG brand way more than “AMG Line” does. . However, it is all about shareholder revenue and market share.

 

[zipdip]

Well I do not think Mercedes can regain the reputation of class vehicle production,I would go so far to say that Mercedes do not want to make class vehicles with a great reputation,because all the recent models have so many things wrong with them,and you can bet Mercedes knew about them and have just stuck their collective fingers up at the buyers of their cars,look at those E class cabs,water sloshing about in the sills,Mercedes knew that would happen why would they put two bungs witha small hole to drain the water out,and lets not look to hard at the C and E class Hybrid cars ,you have to be made of stern stuff to buy one of those given the things going wrong with them,what about those 4x4 who cannot turn without the tyres skipping sideways,Mercedes knew about it,and I have never rated the Mercedes paint just look at the quality of the paint on their new cars,you have to hand it to the hard core Mercedes owners ,buy a new car take delivery then take it to a guy to correct the paint,no Mercedes have given up.

 

[markjay]

Do you remember vinyl roofs?

Great rust traps.....

 

[jgraeme]

What do you think that Mercedes should do to restore their reputation as THE premium manufacturer---make premier engineered cars

yes,but is the question to simplistic, to digress ,volvo is a chinese car company. landrover rangerover jaguar are owned by TATA an indian company do customers know they are buying chinese or indian cars. JD POWERS rates reliability of afore mentioned car makes as abysmal so why do people buy them...............marketing advertising media lobbying[jeremy clarkson,s free FORD GT40 which he could not fit into springs to mind as does TOP GEARS bias to FORD ] I would advise all mercedes salesmen to mention the above to prospective customers thus destroying a fair proportion of the oposition. as for the Japanese reliable yes overal but servicing and parts cost are world leadingly high and brand histories begins in 1945 when the americans took over. Mercedes illustrious history goes back to the invention of the car. digression shall now cease. as for mercedes today personally i look at mercedes from 1990 to 1996 after this things started to go horribly wrong ,biodegradeble plastics in wiring,alterations to paint spraying both to satisfy Germany,s green political lobby,merger with Daimler and OH HORROR CHRYSLER. etc etc so can MERCEDES regain past glory and make premium engineered cars again as the questioner asks........................? for me all i can say is Mercedes reached a peak of quality in materials and design ,engineering,build ,safety styling ,duability and endurance.after 90 to 96 not so much of course pre 1990 mercedes have superb qualities also, but as i say a peak was reached in my view. and these cars are still relatively affordable to the knowledgble car conissueur but remember keep this to yourself the cars are in short supply ,,,,,,,,,,do you know i think i should delete this whole message perhaps i am heating up the market on these cars and thus pushing up thier price. horror of horrors buy the way classic cars are the Worlds No 1 investment above Gold and Art etc .this is pricing true classic car enthusiasts of modest means out of thr market Food for thought ANY COMMENTS WOULD BE VERY WELCOME GRAEME JONES. mercedes gone but not forgotten E200D 1969 250000miles. 450SLC 1972 70000miles. E300D 1991 265000 miles smooth as silk and relative to petrol economical. Current FLeet R129 280SL 1995 141000miles, C2.2d est 2006 130000miles dont buy one black box faults {see notes above}

 

[jgraeme]

Great rust traps.....

not so i owned a 1966 MG MIDGET with a red vinyl roof and matching tonneau cover.Incidentally all midgets sprites mgb's all convertibles with vinyl roofs.BUT i later owned a Ford capri 3,0L mark 1 with a.....u guessed it..........brown vinyl roof. NO rust on roof but plenty elsewhere. As Henry Ford said IF THEY DONT RUST THEY WONT COME BACK TO BUY ANOTHER ONE.

 

[HB]

yes,but is the question to simplistic, to digress ,volvo is a chinese car company. landrover rangerover jaguar are owned by TATA an indian company do customers know they are buying chinese or indian cars. JD POWERS rates reliability of afore mentioned car makes as abysmal so why do people buy them...............marketing advertising media lobbying[jeremy clarkson,s free FORD GT40 which he could not fit into springs to mind as does TOP GEARS bias to FORD ] I would advise all mercedes salesmen to mention the above to prospective customers thus destroying a fair proportion of the oposition. as for the Japanese reliable yes overal but servicing and parts cost are world leadingly high and brand histories begins in 1945 when the americans took over. Mercedes illustrious history goes back to the invention of the car. digression shall now cease. as for mercedes today personally i look at mercedes from 1990 to 1996 after this things started to go horribly wrong ,biodegradeble plastics in wiring,alterations to paint spraying both to satisfy Germany,s green political lobby,merger with Daimler and OH HORROR CHRYSLER. etc etc so can MERCEDES regain past glory and make premium engineered cars again as the questioner asks........................? for me all i can say is Mercedes reached a peak of quality in materials and design ,engineering,build ,safety styling ,duability and endurance.after 90 to 96 not so much of course pre 1990 mercedes have superb qualities also, but as i say a peak was reached in my view. and these cars are still relatively affordable to the knowledgble car conissueur but remember keep this to yourself the cars are in short supply ,,,,,,,,,,do you know i think i should delete this whole message perhaps i am heating up the market on these cars and thus pushing up thier price. horror of horrors buy the way classic cars are the Worlds No 1 investment above Gold and Art etc .this is pricing true classic car enthusiasts of modest means out of thr market Food for thought ANY COMMENTS WOULD BE VERY WELCOME GRAEME JONES. mercedes gone but not forgotten E200D 1969 250000miles. 450SLC 1972 70000miles. E300D 1991 265000 miles smooth as silk and relative to petrol economical. Current FLeet R129 280SL 1995 141000miles, C2.2d est 2006 130000miles dont buy one black box faults {see notes above}

Holy shit- my eyes have boggled inside out.
Hi Graeme.

 

[SmartAmg]

Do you remember vinyl roofs?

Yep, had one on a, Mk4
Ford Cortina 2.0 Ghia
lovely motor.

 

[zipdip]

I had one on a mark 3 Cortina a 2.0 l GT in white with the black vinyl roof.

 

[Deleted member 126251]

Well I do not think Mercedes can regain the reputation of class vehicle production,I would go so far to say that Mercedes do not want to make class vehicles with a great reputation,because all the recent models have so many things wrong with them,and you can bet Mercedes knew about them and have just stuck their collective fingers up at the buyers of their cars,look at those E class cabs,water sloshing about in the sills,Mercedes knew that would happen why would they put two bungs witha small hole to drain the water out,and lets not look to hard at the C and E class Hybrid cars ,you have to be made of stern stuff to buy one of those given the things going wrong with them,what about those 4x4 who cannot turn without the tyres skipping sideways,Mercedes knew about it,and I have never rated the Mercedes paint just look at the quality of the paint on their new cars,you have to hand it to the hard core Mercedes owners ,buy a new car take delivery then take it to a guy to correct the paint,no Mercedes have given up.

I’ll add to the list

Corroding alloys.........

 

[grober]

The problem with discussions like these, is that none of us, as far as I know,?? is familiar with the detailed /itemised costs of building a car. Let's take as an example rear subframe of some of the more recent models. No,, this isn't state-of-the-art complex engineering as typified by the latest exhaust emission treatments such as add blue technology SCR and Nox sensors for which teething problems might be excused, carmakers have been manufacturing rear subframes for years. Was the metal gauge used too thin or of poor quality steel, were there not enough strategically placed drain holes in the design, was their surface internal and external not sufficiently well protected by paint or galvanising, maybe it should have been an alloy casting--- whatever the reason the technical solution to counter early failure due to corrosion was readily available. One can only conclude that it was made on the cheap to reduce cost----- and the $64,000 question----- just how much more would it have cost to build a better quality subframe that would last projected life of the vehicle------ in an industry that is producing these in the millions I'll wager it would have resulted in a very small price increase in the final vehicle------- that's why Mercedes is no longer a premium manufacturer-- THE OWNERSHIP EXPERIENCE [1rst,2nd,3rd] spoiled for a ha'penny worth of tar!

 

[rayaans]

Surely premium means different things to different people
The badge is premium enough for some - hence the abundance of basic spec A180d's. Is it any more premium than a Ford Focus Vignale? unlikely.
For others its the price tag - that Mercedes A class must simply be more premium because it costs more than a Golf (not strictly true but you get the idea)
Some would say Germans are more premium than the Japanese
Others base their judgements of premium on customer service received from the manufacturer

Personally I think it depends. I judge a car on the quality of the interior, fit and finish and specification. Hence why I think "premium" is relative. Even in a certain model, for example the A-class, a Mercedes A250 AMG line Premium Plus pack is much more premium than the A180d base.

I think the issue with Mercedes is that they have appeared to chase almost every niche and market and diluting the brand down to A180d levels. To be fair most "premium" manufacturers are doing it. The only ones that aren't to the same level are JLR and Lexus.

 

[Darrell]

Holy shit- my eyes have boggled inside out.
Hi Graeme.

Same. I gave up.