What would you do to restore Mercedes reputation as a ‘Premium’ manufacturer?

[Bobby Dazzler]

I think the issue with Mercedes is that they have appeared to chase almost every niche and market and diluting the brand down to A180d levels. To be fair most "premium" manufacturers are doing it. The only ones that aren't to the same level are JLR and Lexus.

Tata and Toyota have pursued a different strategy to Daimler. Like Daimler they have a diversified portfolio (“chase every niche”) - from city cars, to family cars, to SUVs, to sports cars, to HGV/Buses, etc - but they have chosen to separate the branding of their luxury cars from the rest of the range. Daimler hasn’t, with the exception of Smart, which started as a joint venture with Swatch and is now a joint venture with Geely.

 

[markjay]

A premium manufacturer (in any market) will invest heavily in making a high-quality product, will work on high margins, and will provide excellent aftersales service, especially to loyal customers - the latter is only possible anyway if the first two prerequisites have been met. Very few automakers can claim that.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I’m not thinking of any particular member when I say this, but I do sense a touch of oneupmanship in some posts in this thread and others like it.

I’m very proud of my Mercedes-Benz ForFour AMG Black Series, but I suspect some members would look down on me because it dilutes the brand.

 

[markjay]

Jokes aside, the Aston Martin Cygnet was a real car......

 

[neilrr]

I take it you gents haven't read 'Ducks, Newburyport' then?

 

[Deleted member 126251]

----- just how much more would it have cost to build a better quality subframe that would last projected life of the vehicle------ in an industry that is producing these in the millions I'll wager it would have resulted in a very small price increase in the final vehicle------.........

Saving ~£10/ vehicle x milions of vehicles..........= happy shareholdrs.

It is like the story of the airline executive that saved the company millions by giving each passenger one olive less or the company that increased their toothpase sales by making the hole in the tube bigger.

 

[jgraeme]

Holy shit- my eyes have boggled inside out.
Hi Graeme.

Hi HB is that a medical condition or are you just pleased to read me. Graeme.

 

[jgraeme]

Same. I gave up.

Gave up reading clear english Darrell? why so? If I have offended I do apologies.

 

[jgraeme]

confused.com

 

[jgraeme]

Same. I gave up.

I’ll add to the list

Corroding alloys.........

my 2005 c class 2.2 d had corroding alloys.my previous OLDER mercs did not eg 1972 450slc .1991 E300D. I do not recall getting your alloys refurbished was such a thing when alloys were made to last. Kerbing alloys is essentially bad parking and possibly a sign of previous owner neglect?

 

[Deleted member 126251]

my 2005 c class 2.2 d had corroding alloys.my previous OLDER mercs did not eg 1972 450slc .1991 E300D. I do not recall getting your alloys refurbished was such a thing when alloys were made to last. Kerbing alloys is essentially bad parking and possibly a sign of previous owner neglect?

Mine are corroding at the centre (from the hubs outward). Nothing to do with parking, previous owner (I purchased it from new) or neglect (lives in a dry garage and only done 17,000 miles in 4+years and only hand washed by me) - just badly made wheels. No other signs of damage.

 

[markjay]

Mine are corroding at the centre (from the hubs outward). Nothing to do with parking, previous owner (I purchased it from new) or neglect (lives in a dry garage and only done 17,000 miles in 4+years and only hand washed by me) - just badly made wheels. No other signs of damage.

Had the same issue with my old W203, at the time I suspect a hasty tyre fitter who removed the centre cap by flicking it off with a screwdriver - which wasn't really necessary, as the wheel was off the car, and the easier thing to do was to push the cap from the inside - and chipped the paint allowing moisture to get in. But then again, it may have just been the result of a manufacturing defect after all - I'll never know.

 

[Deleted member 126251]

Had the same issue with my old W203, at the time I suspect a hasty tyre fitter who removed the centre cap by flicking it off with a screwdriver - which wasn't really necessary, as the wheel was off the car, and the easier thing to do was to push the cap from the inside - and chipped the paint allowing moisture to get in. But then again, it may have just been the result of a manufacturing defect after all - I'll never know.

Wheels have never been off the car. Still factory original tyres.

 

[TomF]

Mercedes did with Maybach what Toyota did with Lexus, Nissan with Infinity, Honda with Acura, and Hyundai with Genesis - have separate brands for their luxurious cars. Maybach is luxurious, Mercedes is not. That's by design...

There are very many other examples: VAG brands of Seat (cheap), VW (midrange), and Audi (upmarket). Land Rover and Range Rover are another example. And when Ford owned Jaguar, it kept the brands separate, in spite of the X Type having Mondeo underpinning. Etc etc.

The concept was actually invented by the Americans many years ago, and lives on to this day. Several dozens American car brands were made by only the three big automakers, to be sold with different trim levels and at different price points under different brand names. Chevrolet, Pontianc, Cadillac, Buick were all made by GM. Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury were made by Ford. Chrysler sold Chysler cars as well as Dodge, Plymouth, and Fargo. This followed the consolidation of the market and disappearance of the small independent automakers.

And it's not difficult to understand that a Bentley with a VW logo (Pheaton) cannot be percived by buyers as luxurious.

So I don't think MB wants the Mercedes brand to be luxurious... if they did, they would have made the A, B, C and E under a different brand name, like every other automaker did over the past 100 years. Yes, also the E, because you can't call an E220 with poverty spec and plastic seats 'luxurious', even if it passes as an Uber VIP (and I am saying this as someone who owns the model that is Europe's favourite taxi - the C-Class).

As for warranty and reliability.... I don't think these are related to being a luxurious brand, instead it's a totally separate parameter.

If you look at the JD Power reliability surveys, you will see that both the pole position and the last position are held by luxurious brand. The most reliable brand is Lexus, the least reliable brands are Range Rover, Jaguar, and Tesla. ThThere's st no correlation in the market between luxury and reliability.

My W222 S Class is certainly luxurious.
Even Rolls Royce and Bentley bring down their reputation with those hideous SUV's though.

 

[TomF]

I reckon mercedes would be bulletproof reliability wise if they sorted the electrics out.

 

[jgraeme]

The problem with discussions like these, is that none of us, as far as I know,?? is familiar with the detailed /itemised costs of building a car. Let's take as an example rear subframe of some of the more recent models. No,, this isn't state-of-the-art complex engineering as typified by the latest exhaust emission treatments such as add blue technology SCR and Nox sensors for which teething problems might be excused, carmakers have been manufacturing rear subframes for years. Was the metal gauge used too thin or of poor quality steel, were there not enough strategically placed drain holes in the design, was their surface internal and external not sufficiently well protected by paint or galvanising, maybe it should have been an alloy casting--- whatever the reason the technical solution to counter early failure due to corrosion was readily available. One can only conclude that it was made on the cheap to reduce cost----- and the $64,000 question----- just how much more would it have cost to build a better quality subframe that would last projected life of the vehicle------ in an industry that is producing these in the millions I'll wager it would have resulted in a very small price increase in the final vehicle------- that's why Mercedes is no longer a premium manufacturer-- THE OWNERSHIP EXPERIENCE [1rst,2nd,3rd] spoiled for a ha'penny worth of tar!

Manufactures of all products including cars ,will sell more products if their products have a limited life. Manufacturers of cars also gain profits from the sale of replacement parts. failure of C.P.U. is very common in todays cars , replacement can be hugely expensive. I have often read the phrase in reference to pre 2000 Mercedes " built to a specification regardeless of cost." Quentin Wilson reviewed the then new E class in 1996 this replaced W124 E class and stated that cost of production each car would be 20% less than the old model. I owned a 1991 E300D which had 250000 miles on the clock.That car was a premium car from a premium manfacturer. however Mercedes were not making enough profit apparently on the sale of each car. Merger of Merceds with Chrysler Daimler saw changes as exemplified by new 1996 E class a rust bucket which heralded the slow decline of Mercedes as a premium manufacturer. no manufacturer has ever matched Mercedes pre2000 for build and material quality .longevity, comfort',soul,value,and engineering I fear we will never see thier like again, GRAEME.

 

[renault12ts]

 

[renault12ts]

"Manufactures of all products, including cars, will sell more products if their products have a limited life. Manufacturers of cars also gain profits from the sale of replacement parts.

Failure of C.P.Us. is very common in todays cars, replacement can be hugely expensive.

I have often read the phrase, in reference to pre 2000 Mercedes, " built to a specification regardless of cost." Quentin Wilson reviewed the then new E class in 1996, this replaced W124 E class, and stated that the cost of production of each car would be 20% less than the old model. I owned a 1991 E300D which had 250,000 miles on the clock.That car was a premium car, from a premium manfacturer. However, Mercedes were not making enough profit, apparently, on the sale of each car.

The merger of Mercedes with Chrysler Daimler saw changes, as exemplified by the new 1996 E class, a rust bucket which heralded the slow decline of Mercedes as a premium manufacturer.

No manufacturer has ever matched Mercedes, pre 2000, for build and material quality. Longevity, comfort, soul, value and engineering. I fear we will never see their like again.

GRAEME."

 

[renault12ts]

The day my wife got her brand new Seat Cordoba, in 1996, she reversed over a kerb pulling off a front mudflap. This had been screwed to the edege of the front wing. The result was two jagged holes.

These two holes were still there twelve years later when she changed cars...they had not got worse. Given that the car was pre 2000, the above statement regarding pre 2000 Mercedes seems a little hollow since I doubt any Mercedes of the era would have survived such an incident without terminal rust of said wing over the following 12 years.

 

[grober]

I suspect that the growth of the company car market in many european countries has lead to a diminution in quality/longevity of many prestige brands--why worry if the car only lasts 3-5 years if -- 1. you didn't pay for it and 2. you will get a new one in 3 years anyway!
https://www.transportenvironment.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/2020_10_Company_cars_briefing.pdf