A very tight junction and too much speed.

[Dieselman]

I think if it had been me in that situation then my instinct would have been to make use of the other side of the road, crossed the white line, as it was clear of traffic or other obstacles, to lessen any harsh or sudden braking or steering angles.

In the dry and daylight I probably would, but am sure I didn't this time. A car with less ability to tun in would have been in trouble.
I've got good brakes, the suspension is working well and I'd put a new front o/s Michelin tyre on that day.

I can see this being a dangerous junction due to the overall layout and poor line marking.
In poor visibility one really is on top of the turn before seeing it is as tight as it is.

 

[jamesfuller]

As far out to the white line as you can, turn in early and cut it. Inside front on the grass and slide her round

 

[Dieselman]

Presumedly the lines are there to prevent people using it as a slip road thus making the turn even more acute, if course hindsight is a wonderful thing

Strange as it seems there is a requirement for the lines to be removed and used as a slip road

Ah, so...

Forum 0, Dieselman 1.

 

[Meldrew2]

Ah, so...

Forum 0, Dieselman 1.

Shall we call it a draw?

 

[renault12ts]

Shall we call it a draw?

And let DM off the hook...no. When exiting the main road you must rely on what you can see, not what the signs or the sat nav say. If it was anyone else making the same OP...DM would not have been slow criticising. What's sauce for the goose...

 

[ChrisA]

Ah, so...

Forum 0, Dieselman 1.

Not even close

 

[John Jones Jr]

And let DM off the hook...no. When exiting the main road you must rely on what you can see, not what the signs or the sat nav say. If it was anyone else making the same OP...DM would not have been slow criticising. What's sauce for the goose...

Ha, ha. I reckon never a truer word spoken!

 

[Meldrew2]

…..What's sauce for the goose...

 

[John Jones Jr]

Smiling here...

 

[whitenemesis]

That looks like cross hatching and a solid white line. Usually means do not cross or enter area.

Further to my two previous Google Maps images, (page 2) here is a Google Earth image of the nasty junction. Damn lucky that there was nothing approaching the A40 from the opposite direction, or there could have been a nasty accident me thinks.
End of the 50 mph restriction visible in bottom right hand corner.

 

[SLK32AMG]

Seems going to fast is catching,Was It Foggy or were you just relying on a electronic gadget to do your driving eg:satnav or just lost consentration ?

 

[seven]

You and Spook can stir all you like, just waiting for developer to get on board, then we have a full house.

I'm really disappointed. You forgot me.

 

[markjay]

An observation, rather than am opinion:

Pilots talk about 'options' as the routes available to them to recover from a difficulty.

A crash is often referred to as 'running out of optios'.

Safe flying - or driving - means you always have more than one option.

In this case it seems that DM reached the safety net and was on his last option.

Now one could argue that he should have never allowed himself to get into this situation, but equally the argument could be that this is exactly what the layers of safety are for and as he did not run out of options this actually proves that the system is working.

 

[def90cars]

How long will it take before you admit to driving too fast for the conditions?

The title of the thread is the admission surely.....

School boy error.


Guilty your honour.... take him down and throw away the key!...

 

[Dieselman]

Wow. I thought you lot would have finally given up, but never ones to give up a good Bitching session.

As a result of this thread I've been paying attention to Road Signs at junctions.

The signage for this junction indicates a slip road, not an acute turn.

For those that don't know what I mean, (most of you ), the direction sign before the junction is shown as an arrow pointing to 10:30 of a clock face. That indicates a slip road or shallow junction.

The correct sign would have the arrow pointing at 9:00 of a clock face to indicate a sharp junction.

There was a sign when Google were down that way, albeit a little misleading. (No rain or fog though)

Just to summarise.

The SatNav and road atlas show this junction to be a shallow lead off, the road signage shows it to be a shallow lead off, the line markings (which shouldn't be there) indicate it is a slip road.

In poor visibility conditions, you can't see it is a right angle turn until you are on the slip road area, which is very late.
Obviously, if you drive like a jock it won't be an issue, as though you will be dying of boredom, you will be saving money on tyres, brakes and fuel...
For normal people...

 

[Dieselman]

An observation, rather than am opinion:

Pilots talk about 'options' as the routes available to them to recover from a difficulty.

A crash is often referred to as 'running out of optios'.

Safe flying - or driving - means you always have more than one option.

In this case it seems that DM reached the safety net and was on his last option.

Now one could argue that he should have never allowed himself to get into this situation, but equally the argument could be that this is exactly what the layers of safety are for and as he did not run out of options this actually proves that the system is working.

I didn't allow myself to get into a poor situation, the signs and road markings did. They are both incorrect for this type of junction.

I also didn't run out of options, just had to react swiftly to the changed information. I could have allowed the car to drift onto the opposite side of the road during the turn, or simply elected to not take the turning.

 

[whitenemesis]

As shown in the aerial photo the road markings are cross hatchings with a solid white line, doesn't that mean do not cross and enter hatched area?

To me it would indicate the slip was out of use.

 

[Dieselman]

As shown in the aerial photo the road markings are cross hatchings with a solid white line, doesn't that mean do not cross and enter hatched area?

To me it would indicate the slip was out of use.

Exactly...which is shouldn't be.

The line at the end of the hatching indicates a slip type junction. That is incorrect.
The hatching is incorrect for the junction, but has been laid to narrow the lane to create a safety "kerb" for the cars waiting at the junction Give Way, line.


ChrisA pointed this error out in Post #96.

Strange as it seems there is a requirement for the lines to be removed and used as a slip road

 

[Dieselman]

And let DM off the hook...no. When exiting the main road you must rely on what you can see, not what the signs or the sat nav say.

I'm pleased you mentioned this Cairan.

At what point did I not react to what I could see? Please explain fully.

Due to ALL previous information being incorrect, the road layout was a surprise...BUT, due to being diligent, I reacted in time.

I know you are going to try to make something out of that, so please carry on.

I always like to quote references.

I don't mean to sh1t stir (yes I do)

 

[whitenemesis]

Exactly...which is shouldn't be.

The line at the end of the hatching indicates a slip type junction. That is incorrect.
The hatching is incorrect for the junction, but has been laid to narrow the lane to create a safety "kerb" for the cars waiting at the junction Give Way, line.


ChrisA pointed this error out in Post #96.

The "error" is only an error if one assumes it should be a slip road! The end marking indicate the beginning of the junction and by the time one is at that point its fairly obvious its a tight turn.
There are plenty of junctions with that 4-5 car length 'slip' ( for want of a better word) that are clearly that, a junction. One's speed should have been moderated to anticipated the turn.