All C43 AMG owners - What shall I do?

[JBD]

Dear Colleague

In recent months you have notified us of an increase in customer complaints of front tyre skipping on certain models, most noticeably on the GLC.

This characteristic occurs as a result of a change in the elasticity of the tyre sidewall and is more evident during cold weather and when turning at very low speed. The effect is also more pronounced when larger wheels and low profile tyres are fitted to the car.

While customers who experience this for the first time might find it unusual, it does not affect the safety of the car. We would, however, request that you bring this potential characteristic to a customer’s attention at point of sale, provide a test drive and ask them to sign to confirm that that they have understood and accepted this ahead of purchase (pro-forma attached).
For any customers for whom comfort is the most important factor, we have tested and identified alternative cost options that can be retrofitted in order to minimise this characteristic. These are:

· 18” and 19” All Season tyres
· 18” and 19” Cold Weather wheels and tyres
· 18” wheels with Summer tyres

The correct wheel and tyre specifications need to be qualified for each model; these, together with availability, can be found on the WIS and TYCOS systems.

Please use this information to support your discussions with customers going forward.

For those customers who have already taken delivery of a car with this characteristic and have expressed their concern, we will provide a further update by 17 February 2017.

 

[Richtw]

Now that is interesting.... I have also noticed that the 19" wheel option is no longer available for the C43 Estate on the configurator so Mercedes obviously see it as a problem.

Owning a C43 I wonder if they will swap my 19's over to 18's if they are not fit for purpose!

As an aside I am a bit alarmed at the amount of tyre wear on the fronts compared to the real after 6000 miles!

 

[dejongj]

Interesting how they refer to the larger wheels, the survey being performed for verified owners and registered users seem to suggest there is no such correlation at all.

In fact, affected owners like myself with the 21" official wheel option are in the minority.

 

[guhvies]

FYI, my C43 saloon is on the standard 18" rims with the Dunlop tires and I get the crabbing. I was told by my SA about this when I picked my car in January.

 

[dejongj]

FYI, my C43 saloon is on the standard 18" rims with the Dunlop tires and I get the crabbing. I was told by my SA about this when I picked my car in January.

Yes, it is the reason why we got together started to gather our own statistics as so many people provided their own theories and reasons of why this is happening. As can be seen quite clearly from the chart, there doesn't seem to be a direct correlation between the diameter of the wheels vs experiencing the issue.

Another that often came up was regarding the brand of the tyres. Many people over on Pistonheads blamed it on Continentals. Well our collated statistics from verified and registered owners that are affected suggest otherwise.

It is a real shame that owners have to go through these lengths to do it themselves. When I first reported it I had full faith in the brand as I had no reason not to. My GL is absolutely brilliant compared to the GLC. All Mercedes-Benz UK had to do was to take this serious, properly investigate, remain in communication with those that are affected. And build up the picture that we have now been forced to do ourselves.

We appreciate that issues can happen, how they are managed and resolved is what is important. Unfortunately that part is totally not to the satisfaction of customers at all.

 

[grober]

A couple of suggestions.
1. The variability in severity of symptoms experienced by owners might suggest there are two phenomena going on here. The first is tyre scrub, the second transmission wind up. They are linked in that they are likely to occur under similar conditions so alleviating one may help but not necessarily eliminate the other.
2. There is no mention whether this phenomenon is present only in RHD cars or cars with the 39/61 torque split ratio transfer box for example. Its entirely possible that the 4wd transfer box is in effect a sealed unit supplied to Mercedes by a third party and if its manufacture and design is subcontracted in this way , one might anticipate this might involve further difficulty between Mercedes and said third party in achieving a resolution.
In the end I guess its down to owners whether they accept this explanation and resolution of the problem. Speaking purely from an engineering point of view I should point out while the first [ tyre scrub]may simply be a nuisance,the second [ transmission wind up] may or may not have long term implications for transmission longevity.

 

[John Jones Jr]

It would seem to my very limited knowledge there's two potential engineering faults while presuming that L/H/D cars don't have the issue. Which would be a fair assumption as there's no way in hell that German or U.S. buyers would be presented with a waiver to sign pre ownership!

1. Steering geometry design - which would obviously be different from L/H/D models.
2. Front diff setup - which is different from L/H/D models.

Plus the crabbing maybe accentuated by silly 20 & 21'' wheels along with low ambient temperatures. But as I mentioned elsewhere, tyres & temp smack of a red herring excuse used by M-B U.K., which would seem correct as the U.K.cars come with a waiver now and from what I gather the waiver does not advise changing to smaller winter tyres when temps drop.

In a nutshell, I'd guess it's just too costly and not practical to engineer out this crabbing issue on R/H/D cars, thus the waiver!

 

[Snooky]

Not checked in on this site for a bit. I was due to collect a C43 Coupe on 1 March. After seeing all of the comments and videos I asked my dealer to check if my car, which was sitting in their compound, exhibited the skipping characteristic. To be fair to him, he confirmed that it skipped both forwards and in reverse.

I therefore cancelled my order - this was done reluctantly as I loved my test drives back In the autumn and think it a wonderful car for my needs but for the crabbing issue.

I have managed to source an Audi S5 Coupe in stock - a couple of small compromises to spec were needed but I manage to avoid the VED increase and still pick up a new car on 1 March just after my current lease ends.

 

[dejongj]

Not checked in on this site for a bit. I was due to collect a C43 Coupe on 1 March. After seeing all of the comments and videos I asked my dealer to check if my car, which was sitting in their compound, exhibited the skipping characteristic. To be fair to him, he confirmed that it skipped both forwards and in reverse.

I therefore cancelled my order - this was done reluctantly as I loved my test drives back In the autumn and think it a wonderful car for my needs but for the crabbing issue.

I have managed to source an Audi S5 Coupe in stock - a couple of small compromises to spec were needed but I manage to avoid the VED increase and still pick up a new car on 1 March just after my current lease ends.

I'm pleased to hear that you felt like you could make an informed decision. I truly wished I was in that position prior to taking delivery of my GLC.

 

[Cooper7]

Not checked in on this site for a bit. I was due to collect a C43 Coupe on 1 March. After seeing all of the comments and videos I asked my dealer to check if my car, which was sitting in their compound, exhibited the skipping characteristic. To be fair to him, he confirmed that it skipped both forwards and in reverse.

I therefore cancelled my order - this was done reluctantly as I loved my test drives back In the autumn and think it a wonderful car for my needs but for the crabbing issue.

I have managed to source an Audi S5 Coupe in stock - a couple of small compromises to spec were needed but I manage to avoid the VED increase and still pick up a new car on 1 March just after my current lease ends.

So what happens when your S5 does the same thing as my Q5 does this? Granted it's not as pronounced as the videos I have seen of the GLC's, but it's just an effect of the 4 wheel drive system.

 

[steve-0]

Not sure whether the OP is still around, also not sure whether C43 owners will be asked to sign it as well. But on the following link you can see a copy of the waiver Mercedes-Benz UK will ask you to sign.

https://www.mercedescrabbing.org/2017/02/07/official-mercedes-tyre-skipping-waiver/

Still want that C43

That's an interesting point as I have already ordered, and I believe a non-refundable deposit placed. So signing a waiver between ordering and collection...? But really I wanted to see if there were any C43 owners who are happy, the thread is quite rightly attracting comment from those unfortunately affected, but I have no idea of the size of the owner base of new C43s and if there is a silent majority of happy/oblivious/non-members out there.....

 

[stevebgt1]

I don't know what all this fuss is about with `crabbing` as you put it. It is a common characteristic with many modern cars, that use wide, low profile, soft compound tyres on their `performance` models. One way of solving/improving this , is you feel you must, is just put a few more psi in them ( especially over winter). These types of tyres are designed to be run at slightly lower pressures to aid grip during high speed cornering. If you increase the pressure, you reduce the size of the contact patch, and give the walls of the tyre more rigidity, which will reduce `crabbing`....

 

[C36fan]

You all should get on with it all 4x4 do that some more than others depending in tyre size and turning angle...


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[dannycotw]

But really I wanted to see if there were any C43 owners who are happy, the thread is quite rightly attracting comment from those unfortunately affected, but I have no idea of the size of the owner base of new C43s and if there is a silent majority of happy/oblivious/non-members out there.....

Ordered my C43 before the crabbing came to light. Since then I have had an extended drive of the dealers demo car on same size wheels as I have ordered. The car did crab but only on full lock and only when the tyres were cold. My car is still on order, not sure I would sign a waiver though, dealer has yet to mention it! As long as my car crabs no more than the demo car I'll be happy to accept the car.

 

[John Jones Jr]

I don't know what all this fuss is about with `crabbing` as you put it. It is a common characteristic with many modern cars, that use wide, low profile, soft compound tyres on their `performance` models. One way of solving/improving this , is you feel you must, is just put a few more psi in them ( especially over winter). These types of tyres are designed to be run at slightly lower pressures to aid grip during high speed cornering. If you increase the pressure, you reduce the size of the contact patch, and give the walls of the tyre more rigidity, which will reduce `crabbing`....

Jeez, M-B have waivers for A45's too.

 

[mgooda]

I don't know what all this fuss is about with `crabbing` as you put it. It is a common characteristic with many modern cars, that use wide, low profile, soft compound tyres on their `performance` models. One way of solving/improving this , is you feel you must, is just put a few more psi in them ( especially over winter). These types of tyres are designed to be run at slightly lower pressures to aid grip during high speed cornering. If you increase the pressure, you reduce the size of the contact patch, and give the walls of the tyre more rigidity, which will reduce `crabbing`....

Not quite correct, I've tried. Smaller contact patch even less grip. Crabbing worse.

The irony is when my dealer checked it, the car came back to me with pressures 5psi under the manufacturer recommendations as an attempt to make it better. Didn't work either.....

 

[Tony Mac]

I don't know what all this fuss is about with `crabbing` as you put it. It is a common characteristic with many modern cars, that use wide, low profile, soft compound tyres on their `performance` models. One way of solving/improving this , is you feel you must, is just put a few more psi in them ( especially over winter). These types of tyres are designed to be run at slightly lower pressures to aid grip during high speed cornering. If you increase the pressure, you reduce the size of the contact patch, and give the walls of the tyre more rigidity, which will reduce `crabbing`....

You have NOT driven the car - Have you watched the videos?

The GLC 220d 168 bhp diesel is NOT a performance car. It's a family car!

Yes, some performance cars on large low profile tyres may exhibit a degree of tyre skipping or slipping, but nothing like the juddering, bouncing and knocking being experienced on all right-hand drive GLC's.

The left-hand drive US / European GLC versions DO NOT CRAB - something is different and very wrong with our right-hand drive GLC's here in the UK

We are making a FUSS because it's unacceptable - the Europeans and Americans spend £45k and have a luxury driving experience. Why should we have to accept the experience of driving a £45k tractor at low speeds!!

 

[stevebgt1]

Is it really that bad on these GLC`s ? You cannot `feel ` it watching a video, so I apologise if I appear ignorant to the problem. My last 4 cars have all suffered a degree of this on full lock/slow speed.....
A45 AMG
BMW i8
RS4 B8
C63 AMG

ALL done it....

 

[Riverside Red]

I get why everyone is getting uptight about the issue, no one wants to think there's a problem with their luxury car. But I do have some sympathy with MB too, I think they're caught in a perfect storm of steering geo to give a tight turning circle at full lock, modern road surfaces, cold temperatures and the modern fashion of tyres that are expected to perform brilliantly in all conditions but rarely do.

My last four Mercs have exhibited crabbing to some extent, but when I check the tyres on full lock I'm always amazed at the angle the wheels go to. My C63 crabbed really badly in the Trafford centre recently on cold slippy block paving, and then again at Manchester Airport when the temps were 2 degrees and the car had stood for two weeks.

As most C63 drivers will tell you on cold tyres and a slippery roundabout a C63 will slide sideways with little throttle input, but this is a characteristic that C63 drivers have to accept as a "feature" of the car, mainly due to tyres that will do their job at full throttle/high cornering loads in the summer months. I don't need a waiver to say I understand this.....but this can be a lot more dangerous than crabbing at low speeds in a car park.

By the way I mentioned the problem to a colleague (who has driven Mercs for the last 15 years) who took delivery of a GLC in September and neither he or his wife have noted anything out of the ordinary.

I think MB could fix the problem quite easily, limit the amount of full lock would be my suggestion, then you would just have a larger turning circle aka my last Audi S5.

 

[Tony Mac]

You have NOT driven the car - Have you watched the videos?

The GLC 220d 168 bhp diesel is NOT a performance car. It's a family car!

Yes, some performance cars on large low profile tyres may exhibit a degree of tyre skipping or slipping, but nothing like the juddering, bouncing and knocking being experienced on all right-hand drive GLC's.

The left-hand drive US / European GLC versions DO NOT CRAB - something is different and very wrong with our right-hand drive GLC's here in the UK

We are making a FUSS because it's unacceptable - the Europeans and Americans spend £45k and have a luxury driving experience. Why should we have to accept the experience of driving a £45k tractor at low speeds!!

Please forgive me for repeating myself - RiverSide Red Read above

MB designed, engineered and manufacture the left-hand drive GLC's that all drive perfectly and do NOT CRAB

Is it too much to expect that our right-hand drive GLC's DO NOT CRAB and drive like TRACTORS at low speed??

Tony