All C43 AMG owners - What shall I do?

[dejongj]

I didn't say that. I have an issue with the way you're speaking to me, completely apart from your experience with your car.


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Really? So I call you out with your untruths, and your changing story, and now you have an issue with how I am speaking to you?

Blimey, this really is the snowflake generation. There is a really simple solution to this, don't tell lies, stick to the facts, and back it up with evidence. That way nobody will call you out.

And in capacity of a representative of the Mercedes dealer network, that is all us disgruntled customers want from Mercedes. Be honest, discuss it openly, investigate. You (as in Mercedes) can have my vehicle to investigate properly, give me a loan vehicle instead. Keep it for a couple of months if you need to. But don't just dismiss it.

But also if you (as in Mercedes) are honest that there is no fix then allow us to return the goods for a full refund, not a buyback, a full refund.

Unfortunately neither is happening, therefore we will spread our message and warn others so they don't end up in the same trap.

 

[dejongj]

It makes no difference at all. Maybe you feel more confident to speak your mind on here, but it doesn't mean your word is gospel. I expect customers to treat with the same respect as I do to them. I'm not prepared to get into a petty argument over this.


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Actually, at the moment it feels like the respect balance is totally not with the customer. So please do spare me your sensitivity. When you (as in Mercedes) sell me a car that doesn't perform what anyone can reasonably expect and I don't like it, well please do show the same level of customer focus as when you (as in Mercedes) wanted my money to get the sale.

 

[grober]

Easy guys lets not get into a spat here. JBD is entitled to express an opinion the same as everyone else. In answer to his question "What do you want and expect Mercedes to do" I guess the answer to that one is possibly different for every owner experiencing this problem. I think what everyone wants from Mercedes is TRANSPARENCY. This would defuse the situation more than anything. When people know what a problem is they can deal with it more adequately- even live with it. To that end it would be useful if Mercedes who must be aware of the problem/effect by now--- and with their superior engineering and design knowledge- after all they built these cars! would issue a detailed memo as to the exact cause.
Questions that could usefully be answered:-

1. Is this problem confined RHD models only.
2. Why is there a difference in the design of the transfer box-- 31/69 single stage transfer epicyclic gears rather than 45/55 two stage transfer epicyclic gears.
3. What is the function of the transfer multi/single plate clutch --on /off or electronic variable clutch .
4. Is the problem source the transfer box or at the front wheels due to steering /suspension geometry
5. What's the rational behind suggesting fitting winter tyre/wheel combination. Greater tyre wall height or softer more pliable rubber at low temperature?

As I have said before most engineering is a compromise and it may be that some design features may have been necessary for Mercedes to offer 4MATIC in some of their RHD models. However if this has meant the introduction of some undesireable handling characteristics at low speed/extreme steering lock , which many will be prepared to live with for the extra abilities AWD offers , it is perhaps still in their best interest as a manufacturer to come clean about it.

 

[dejongj]

@grober - Spot on. Transparency is all we want as that will then allow for the relevant path of corrective action which may indeed be different for each owner and prospective owner.

 

[st13phil]

Questions that could usefully be answered:-

1. Is this problem confined RHD models only.
2. Why is there a difference in the design of the transfer box-- 31/69 single stage transfer epicyclic gears rather than 45/55 two stage transfer epicyclic gears.
3. What is the function of the transfer multi/single plate clutch --on /off or electronic variable clutch .
4. Is the problem source the transfer box or at the front wheels due to steering /suspension geometry
5. What's the rational behind suggesting fitting winter tyre/wheel combination. Greater tyre wall height or softer more pliable rubber at low temperature?

Thank you Graeme.

Absent factual answers to questions 1 and 4 (not hearsay or speculation), I don't think anyone will be any the wiser.

 

[dejongj]

Easy guys lets not get into a spat here. JBD is entitled to express an opinion the same as everyone else. In answer to his question "What do you want and expect Mercedes to do" I guess the answer to that one is possibly different for every owner experiencing this problem. I think what everyone wants from Mercedes is TRANSPARENCY. This would defuse the situation more than anything. When people know what a problem is they can deal with it more adequately- even live with it. To that end it would be useful if Mercedes who must be aware of the problem/effect by now--- and with their superior engineering and design knowledge- after all they built these cars! would issue a detailed memo as to the exact cause.
Questions that could usefully be answered:-

1. Is this problem confined RHD models only.
2. Why is there a difference in the design of the transfer box-- 31/69 single stage transfer epicyclic gears rather than 45/55 two stage transfer epicyclic gears.
3. What is the function of the transfer multi/single plate clutch --on /off or electronic variable clutch .
4. Is the problem source the transfer box or at the front wheels due to steering /suspension geometry
5. What's the rational behind suggesting fitting winter tyre/wheel combination. Greater tyre wall height or softer more pliable rubber at low temperature?

As I have said before most engineering is a compromise and it may be that some design features may have been necessary for Mercedes to offer 4MATIC in some of their RHD models. However if this has meant the introduction of some undesireable handling characteristics at low speed/extreme steering lock , which many will be prepared to live with for the extra abilities AWD offers , it is perhaps still in their best interest as a manufacturer to come clean about it.

Thank you Graeme.

Absent factual answers to questions 1 and 4 (not hearsay or speculation), I don't think anyone will be any the wiser.

Factual answer to question 5 attached, directly from Mercedes Benz. And possibly for question 1 as well, although this is only the Netherlands.

 

[dannycotw]

Translation????

 

[st13phil]

Factual answer to question 5 attached, directly from Mercedes Benz. And possibly for question 1 as well, although this is only the Netherlands.

Sorry, my Dutch isn't up to translating that. Can you oblige, please?


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[grober]

If I have got the jist--its fit winter tyres under 7degrees C Since its "Nederlands" one can perhaps assume LHD however as an AMG model it may have the 39/61 central diff to direct more torque to the rear???

 

[dejongj]

In the Netherlands (LHD country) they are not able to find any reported fault on the vehicle in relation to the problem that I described, as such they would not be able to confirm that it also exists in the Netherlands. But I appreciate that is just one country of many LHD markets, but then again I'm sure that US orientate forums like mbworld.org would respond and confirm they have it. Just like we would if we had their screeching brake problems.

Anyway, MB NL also confirmed that it is not necessary to drive with winter tyres. However, at temperatures under 7 degrees Celsius summer tyres loose their elasticity and therefore their traction and braking ability is reduced. For these reasons [traction and braking ability] it is recommended to drive with winter tyres during the winter months.

Seems perfectly logical to me, and a principle that I was fully aware off for all my years of driving a car. No mention of any other characteristics changing or being the reason to swap to winter tyres.

And yes the AMG model will have rear bias as well, just like the US model has as well.

 

[dejongj]

You know what, despite those who are still in denial, a little note like that one attached from others who took the pre-warning and jumped ship makes it worthwhile to make a bit of noise regarding these kind of issues.

If only 1% who saw just my main video changed their mind, that is a only a small dent of £1.5M in lost revenue for Mercedes and their dealers.

I can't help but think that if MB UK, and their dealer network showed their customers a bit more respect and managed this situation more sensibly that could all be avoided.

If my little video generated that many visits, I'd hate to think how many page impressions Honest John and the Facebook campaigns have gotten.

 

[st13phil]

Thanks for the translation. Not sure it's really advanced our knowledge though

 

[dejongj]

Thanks for the translation. Not sure it's really advanced our knowledge though

It has given a clear answer to question 5 though I agree it shouldn't have advanced your knowledge as I think this is bread and butter stuff to those with a bit of motoring experience.

 

[st13phil]

Are you a member of Which?

If so, I'm pretty sure they'd be interested in investigating a case where a motor dealer refused to accept the findings of the Motor Ombudsman. Also, they may be willing to provide (or at least put you in contact with) a suitably qualified Automotive Engineer to examine the vehicle.

 

[dannycotw]

Rough price for winter wheels (i.e. Wheels and tyres) from the dealer for C43 coupe...£4k Is it just me or does this sound extortionate and potentially just profiteering by the dealer/dealership now that they advise fitting winter tyres to address the knocking/crabbing. Set of 4 tyres should be less than £1k so the alloy wheels are £750 each? does this sound right?

Quick look on Aldi website and you can get 18" winter wheels and tyres for an S5 coupe for £2000

 

[DannyHall]

Rough price for winter wheels (i.e. Wheels and tyres) from the dealer for C43 coupe...£4k Is it just me or does this sound extortionate and potentially just profiteering by the dealer/dealership now that they advise fitting winter tyres to address the knocking/crabbing. Set of 4 tyres should be less than £1k so the alloy wheels are £750 each? does this sound right? Quick look on Aldi website and you can get 18" winter wheels and tyres for an S5 coupe for £2000

Would advise not getting tyres from Aldi.
All jokes a side what are the dimensions? I got winter tyres for 600 euro in Germany for my CLA45 19/35/235

Why would you not just get the tyres for the wheels you have on?

 

[dannycotw]

Would advise not getting tyres from Aldi. All jokes a side what are the dimensions? I got winter tyres for 600 euro in Germany for my CLA45 19/35/235 Why would you not just get the tyres for the wheels you have on?

2 main reasons really:
1. If they are already on wheels then I can change them over at home so more convenient
2. Avoids risk of damage to alloy or tyre having them taken off twice a year

 

[dejongj]

2 main reasons really:
1. If they are already on wheels then I can change them over at home so more convenient
2. Avoids risk of damage to alloy or tyre having them taken off twice a year

And in addition, for those on 21" factory wheels, there are no winter tyres for the 21" wheels, so other alloys are a necessity in addition to the excellent points made above.

 

[HumberMart]

Has anyone else spotted this actual admission of a 'Fault' by an MB technician?

https://youtu.be/BOmcN3lhE2A

 

[DannyHall]

2 main reasons really: 1. If they are already on wheels then I can change them over at home so more convenient 2. Avoids risk of damage to alloy or tyre having them taken off twice a year

Yeh I understand what you're saying but I doubt that you would cause £3000 worth of damage to the alloys changing them.
Obviously I won't tell you how to spend you're money and it's down to preference!

Also going on the basis of my assumption yours is a C43 and not the GLC43? At 18/19" £750 is the same price I got quoted per wheel for the black 19" AMG wheels for my 45. Seems excessive for winter wheels definitely!