All C43 AMG owners - What shall I do?

[dejongj]

Have any other the other vehicles, including the GL been 4 wheel drive with 20 inch alloys and run flat skinny tyres like the above GLC?


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Oh yes - Mercedes GL was also on 21" AMG wheels with same Continental tyres. And I've also had cars on 22" wheels. Besides Mercedes sales people sell this wheel package as part of an official upgrade, if they aren't fit for purpose then you shouldn't be selling them and inform customers upfront.

Do you inform your customers upfront that they can only drive the car 6 months of the year unless they buy wheels/tyres for the winter as well?

Is that now part of the standard conversation and a tick on the form of the sales order? It sure wasn't back in September when I ordered this car.

 

[dejongj]

As I said earlier on, my C Cab, which is RWD does it on full lock, as it's on the 19 inch multi spokes. Clearly that shows that it's not all down to the 4 wheel drive system and says that it's never going to be rectified while you have those alloys on your car


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I wouldn't accept that either

 

[JBD]

I agree, I think this is part of a bigger issue. The general population, in an ideal world, would like the biggest wheels on a car, with the softest ride, but also the best handling and off road capability. They simply don't go together.

I do genuinely pre warn people about the negatives of the biggest wheels. Harder ride, more road noise and I even show people what happens on full lock. I don't just sit in the back of the car on test drive and cough to try and cover up the noise [emoji23]

Our GLS63 demonstrator has 22 inch wheels on it, but it still has tyre walls about twice as tall. It had the wheel arches and suspension travel to accommodate them.

Genuine question here, what do you want and expect Mercedes to do?


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[dejongj]

I agree, I think this is part of a bigger issue. The general population, in an ideal world, would like the biggest wheels on a car, with the softest ride, but also the best handling and off road capability. They simply don't go together.

I do genuinely pre warn people about the negatives of the biggest wheels. Harder ride, more road noise and I even show people what happens on full lock. I don't just sit in the back of the car on test drive and cough to try and cover up the noise [emoji23]

Our GLS63 demonstrator has 22 inch wheels on it, but it still has tyre walls about twice as tall. It had the wheel arches and suspension travel to accommodate them.

Genuine question here, what do you want and expect Mercedes to do?


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Take it serious and reintroduce some customer service. I fully accept that goods can have issues, but what counts and what customers remember is how you deal with them. Just brushing it away and saying it is normal isn't going to help.

It is not reasonable to expect a car to do this. So if Mercedes is aware that this car does this and consider it normal then they should make it very clear during the sales process what the score it. I would have not bought this car if they told me it would do this. Likewise I would not have bought this car if the sale people told me that this car would behave like this for six months of the year unless I forked out another £3K for a set of winter wheels/tyres as an optional extra. I would have thought that they were trying to pull the wool over my eyes and walked away again as well. But try another Mercedes dealer, however if they said the same as well I would not have bought the car.

If I entertain that this is normal and expected behaviour, then I would argue it is being mis-sold in the configurations that Mercedes offer.

But what I want to happen now, in order of preference;
1) Ideally a fix - I love the car in every other way, it is really nice. And there are conflicting stories from MB UK who say now they are working on a fix, to the dealers who say it is normal. To MB UK in writing saying to get winter tyres. So a very confusing story and if they are working on a fix then they need to firstly communicate to all registered owners that they are and hang in there. As part of that fix I definitely expect new front tyres as well, the wear is just unreasonable.
2) Being allowed to reject the car as not fit for purpose and missold. If there is no fix then it is not what I reasonably expected to buy. As such I want to reject it with full refund; not a buyback, a refund.
3) If the rejection doesn't work, and it is clear that the motoring ombudsman doesn't have any teeth either, and legal processes are just taking too long, then and only then I'd accept 20" winter wheels/tyres and replacement front 21" tyres, plus 3 years storage of the wheels/tyres and unlimited swap overs.


I think that is fair and reasonable, I'm not after compensation or anything. A new car purchase should be a happy purchase, either fix and treat me right, or just give me a full refund and I walk away and won't look back.

 

[dejongj]

I agree, I think this is part of a bigger issue. The general population, in an ideal world, would like the biggest wheels on a car, with the softest ride, but also the best handling and off road capability. They simply don't go together.

Actually there is nothing wrong with the ride comfort of the 21" wheels with airmatic. Still more comfortable than my Audi Quattro on 18" with S-Line suspension.

I do genuinely pre warn people about the negatives of the biggest wheels. Harder ride, more road noise and I even show people what happens on full lock. I don't just sit in the back of the car on test drive and cough to try and cover up the noise [emoji23]

Good on you, it doesn't say in the sales literature that it will scrub/crab though

Our GLS63 demonstrator has 22 inch wheels on it, but it still has tyre walls about twice as tall. It had the wheel arches and suspension travel to accommodate them.

I guess you are applying some poetic liberal interpretation on that. Tyre walls about twice as tall? Seriously? My GL has 295/35R21 on factory standard wheels, so a tyre wall of 103.25mm. The GLC43 has at the rear 285/35R21 so a tyre wall of 99.75mm. That is 3.5mm difference.

Front is 255/40R21 on the GLC whilst it is the same 295/35R21 on the GL. So that is 102mm sidewall, which is 1.25mm difference.

So in my comparison I really don't see material difference. Likewise both are on airmatic suspension.

I have no access to a current GL63 on 22" wheels, but I find it incredibly unrealistic to imagine it has sidewalls that are 199.5mm high. Say that represents 35 as well, that would mean the tyres are 1m wide :bannana: So lets try it differently lets make them 50s, ahem that is still 498/50R22 tyres. Really JBD. I'm happy to have a grown up conversation, but please lets leave out the sales bull****.

 

[JBD]

Then I personally think your only option is rejection. It's my belief that the issue is more down to the alloy and tyre combination, rather than the four wheel drive system. Clearly it's made worse by the four wheel drive system, but the issue would still be there without it.

Though I agree that there is part responsibility on the salesperson, it's definitely a combination of a huge number of things. As I said previously, I have numerous people driving the same car as you on the same alloys without complaint. That doesn't really push me to put people off opting for those wheels. I'll just do what I have always done and make people aware of the possibility. Hysterically proclaiming that the car would be un-drivable for six months of the year would be ridiculous. Living in Norfolk, my customer base is much more rural than most, so that's clearly not the case.

I'm not really sure what you'd like me to do, other than agree with you, but I'd rather be realistic and say that I don't think you're going to get a resolution to this problem. I know that sounds bad, but I can't see a feasible fix other than rejection


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[John Jones Jr]

It's my belief that the issue is more down to the alloy and tyre combination, rather than the four wheel drive system.

Have you not read the three different threads on this crabbing issue? But let's presume you have for now. On that basis can you explain to one and all exactly why the crabbing issue is caused by the wheel & tyre combo and not the diff.

 

[JBD]

Yes, clearly they're not twice as tall, but you understand my point. 20 inch wheels on a Micra aren't going to have the same effect as those on a Hummer. The point still stands though. There are so many variable here. Wheelbase, four wheel drive system, tyre type, tyre size, torque figures, turning circle...it goes on. To get rid of this problem would mean to create a whole new car IMO and MB aren't going to do that for the minority who are having issues, which you are.


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[JBD]

Have you not read the three different threads on this crabbing issue? But let's presume you have for now. On that basis can you explain to one and all exactly why the crabbing issue is caused by the wheel & tyre combo and not the diff.

I'm not saying that it's not a contributing factor, I have said that. The fact that the issue is still present on cars with a completely different drivetrain suggests to me that the issue would still be present, even with a modified diff. If my mums car doesn't do it on 19's (or very rarely) the simple solution is an alloy wheel change. Not to redesign a major part of the drivetrain


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[dejongj]

Then I personally think your only option is rejection. It's my belief that the issue is more down to the alloy and tyre combination, rather than the four wheel drive system. Clearly it's made worse by the four wheel drive system, but the issue would still be there without it.

Though I agree that there is part responsibility on the salesperson, it's definitely a combination of a huge number of things. As I said previously, I have numerous people driving the same car as you on the same alloys without complaint. That doesn't really push me to put people off opting for those wheels. I'll just do what I have always done and make people aware of the possibility. Hysterically proclaiming that the car would be un-drivable for six months of the year would be ridiculous. Living in Norfolk, my customer base is much more rural than most, so that's clearly not the case.

I'm not really sure what you'd like me to do, other than agree with you, but I'd rather be realistic and say that I don't think you're going to get a resolution to this problem. I know that sounds bad, but I can't see a feasible fix other than rejection


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So now I'm hysterically proclaiming. You truly are something.

So despite the videos of the noise, the tyres literally shredding, saying that it is a characteristic but not all car do it. Being totally called out on your tyre theory of sizes. And you are still standing for it. It is exactly the same usual story us who are affected get from MB UK, and our dealer ships. You are all consistent in that aspect, but conflicting at the same time.

You say all do it, but then you also say not all do it.
You say it is to do with the big wheels, but yet the small wheels also do it.
You say it is my driveway (seriously?) but can't explain why none of the others cars in the 20 years that I've lived there do it. And why the other owners have an issue as well. Do they all have the wrong kind of driveway as well?

I don't expect you to ever agree, but I don't understand the denial when presented with clear evidence. It is not like I'm some internet troll making this stuff up. And it isn't like I'm the only one.

Sorry JBD - but your consistently conflicting responses really detract from any credibility there may be.

People I would really take note of this. This is how a Mercedes Benz Sales Person communicates. Now imagine you are affected by this issue or something else, and the sales people keep on saying this (sidewalls twice as big, really!?) and the service managers keep on wheeling the same document out without even wanting to look at the car.

Well don't say you haven't been warned.

OP Good luck with your order...

 

[John Jones Jr]

I'm not saying that it's not a contributing factor, I have said that. The fact that the issue is still present on cars with a completely different drivetrain suggests to me that the issue would still be present, even with a modified diff. If my mums car doesn't do it on 19's (or very rarely) the simple solution is an alloy wheel change. Not to redesign a major part of the drivetrain


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It seems to me you're backtracking now. I think to a degree you are talking a load of b0llox (sorry I just can't put it anyother way).


Now I'm very happy to stand and be corrected but to my limited understanding is that RHD and LHD cars have a different front diff/diff setup and problem seems to be confined to RHD cars. If that's the case what the hell has a wheel & tyre combo got to do with anything.

P.s. Just to add. I'm delighted I've not spent £50k on a new car and had to read your contribution to this topic.

 

[dejongj]

I If my mums car doesn't do it on 19's (or very rarely) the simple solution is an alloy wheel change. Not to redesign a major part of the drivetrain


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Interesting to see you are starting to change your story regarding your mums car. First it was like the other 40 your sold that it didn't do it. Now you are softening up that statement and added (or very rarely). So it does do it then?

And that is on 19", so perhaps she should go down to 18" wheels?

Honestly don't bother, the tyre is a red herring. Vehicles on 18, 19, 20, 21 all do it.

 

[JBD]

So now I'm hysterically proclaiming. You truly are something.



So despite the videos of the noise, the tyres literally shredding, saying that it is a characteristic but not all car do it. Being totally called out on your tyre theory of sizes. And you are still standing for it. It is exactly the same usual story us who are affected get from MB UK, and our dealer ships. You are all consistent in that aspect, but conflicting at the same time.



You say all do it, but then you also say not all do it.

You say it is to do with the big wheels, but yet the small wheels also do it.

You say it is my driveway (seriously?) but can't explain why none of the others cars in the 20 years that I've lived there do it. And why the other owners have an issue as well. Do they all have the wrong kind of driveway as well?



I don't expect you to ever agree, but I don't understand the denial when presented with clear evidence. It is not like I'm some internet troll making this stuff up. And it isn't like I'm the only one.



Sorry JBD - but your consistently conflicting responses really detract from any credibility there may be.



People I would really take note of this. This is how a Mercedes Benz Sales Person communicates. Now imagine you are affected by this issue or something else, and the sales people keep on saying this (sidewalls twice as big, really!?) and the service managers keep on wheeling the same document out without even wanting to look at the car.



Well don't say you haven't been warned.



OP Good luck with your order...

You are coming across rather hysterical now. When did I say it was your driveways fault? Don't be so ridiculous. I said that you're experiencing this issue more because of the way you have to approach your driveway. It's not like the car does it when you're driving down a country road at speed. It's an issue that it brought to light in certain environments, ones that not every single person will come across daily. That's evident from the damage to your tyres.

When did I say that all do it? I think I've been pretty clear that it's predominantly on cars with bigger wheels. On cars with smaller wheels, if present at all, it's not as bad, so not something that an owner would typically complain about and certainly not motivation for a rejection.

I'm not in denial at all, I've clearly acknowledge every point you have brought up. If anyone on this forum, it's me that is well informed, as I've driven pretty much every variation of vehicle Mercedes currently sells.

What I'm trying to get across is that I feel that this isn't something that will be resolved. I feel there are too many contributing factors for anyone to actually fix for you. I understand you're annoyed and disappointed, but you're pretty clear that you wouldn't accept a swap to smaller alloys, which I'm definite would help.

Your repeated digs about me being a salesman don't make me feel like you're someone that a customer service representative at head office could have a reasonable conversation with. What matters to me is that my customers are happy and if one has a complaint, I'll do my best to help. As I've said before, it's not something I'm coming across much at all, but I'll address it if I do. That's not denial, that's my real world experience.


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[JBD]

Interesting to see you are starting to change your story regarding your mums car. First it was like the other 40 your sold that it didn't do it. Now you are softening up that statement and added (or very rarely). So it does do it then?

And that is on 19", so perhaps she should go down to 18" wheels?

Honestly don't bother, the tyre is a red herring. Vehicles on 18, 19, 20, 21 all do it.

I think you'll find I said that I haven't had a complaint yet from the cars I've sold. You're trying to twist my words now. One of my customers drives a 220d sport and is doing 30,000 miles per annum. He's driving on 18's and isn't shredding his tyres every few thousand miles.

This is turning into a witch hunt [emoji23]


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[dejongj]

Cool the classic, so now the owners with the issue are the problem. Anything but the car ...

Brilliant.

 

[JBD]

Cool the classic, so now the owners with the issue are the problem. Anything but the car ...

Brilliant.

I didn't say that. I have an issue with the way you're speaking to me, completely apart from your experience with your car.


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[John Jones Jr]

This is turning into a witch hunt [emoji23]

witch-hunt
ˈ
noun
a campaign directed against a person or group holding views considered unorthodox or a threat to society.

Come on you're not that relevant. Your problem is you think you're talking to people in the secure confines of a glass & chrome shrine of a dealer outlet and we've just walked in the door.

 

[RickMM]

Not posted in this thread yet, but I've just taken back a C43 that I'd had on loan for a week while my car was having some work done.
It had 18 inch wheels, and when cold it demonstrated really bad crabbing. It didn't even need to be on full lock to do it either.
Two things that struck me:
1. it is a bit embarrassing when it does it and people give you funny looks;
2. it cannot be doing the mechanical components or the tyres any good at all to do that, and I would have concerns about the long-term effects on the car if I were in the market for one.

In fairness, my C63 can do it (to a much lesser extent) on very cold mornings as well.

 

[JBD]

It makes no difference at all. Maybe you feel more confident to speak your mind on here, but it doesn't mean your word is gospel. I expect customers to treat with the same respect as I do to them. I'm not prepared to get into a petty argument over this.


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[John Jones Jr]

I expect customers to treat with the same respect as I do to them.

Ah, that old card again. You don't like what people are saying so it's a lack of respect, man up! That attitude reminds me of dealing with those silly customer service staff that are only contactable by phone.