Blue Efficiency injector recall?

[Rory]

There's a post on the HonestJohn forum from a long standing member who is trying to order a C250CDi but is being told that the lease company can't or won't order one at the moment as there's a "mass" recall to change the injectors of Blue Efficiency cars.

He notes they aleady have a C220CDi Blue Efficiency on their fleet which has had its injectors replaced twice within a few months.


I haven't heard of this before - anyone know anything?

 

[st13phil]

I picked up something in a German mag (Auto-Motor und Sport) earlier this week that there has been a problem of failing Delphi injectors on some examples of the new twin-turbo OM651 diesels.

According to the article, MB are not running a recall campaign in Germany but if an owner suffers a failure of the injection system they get the injectors replaced inder warranty (obviously), an "official apology letter" and a "gift" such as service vouchers by way of an apology. Apparently MB has slowed production of new cars so that adequate numbers of replacement injectors could be supplied to existing owners.

It was unclear how many vehicles are affected, but there have been 2,800 complaints of failure so far - presumably in Germany alone?

Here's the link

 

[Mudster]

It was unclear how many vehicles are affected, but there have been 2,800 complaints of failure so far - presumably in Germany alone?

Here's the link

Phone any Main dealer in the UK and it's likely to be the first instance they've never heard of it. Never happened before Sir

 

[C240Sport97]

link translated:Google Translate

 

[st13phil]

Phone any Main dealer in the UK and it's likely to be the first instance they've never heard of it. Never happened before Sir

Disturbingly close to the truth, I'd say

 

[C240Sport97]

sounds like they have fixed the issue .. so newly produced cars should be OK

 

[Dieselman]

WOW...!

Mercedes has learned from past mistakes: The error is not only confessed immediately. Kunden erhalten zudem ein offizielles Entschuldigungsschreiben des Mercedes-Händlers und eine "Aufmerksamkeit", wie etwa einen Service-Gutschein, in Höhe von zirka 200 Euro. Customers also receive an official apology letter from the Mercedes dealer and an "attention", such as a service voucher in the amount of approximately $ 200.

 

[st13phil]

WOW...!

Mercedes has learned from past mistakes: The error is not only confessed immediately.

I wonder if that new sense of honesty and openness extends outside the German borders as far as MB-UK and the UK dealer network? If it does, all credit to them. If it doesn't then they deserve a brickbat

 

[patrao]

Same in Portugal

I have a E250CDi too. This problem as happened by 9500, 9750 and 10000 kilometers! First they changed only the 2nd injector, then all of them, and now it is still at Mercedes Service...

Apparently the problem is that when the motor is powering up there is a milisecond delay between fluel injection and motor igniton so the injector "work" without flue and then breaks... the funny is that it usually breaks after several kilometers and not right at switching on.

The solution may be a motor reprogramming that injects more fluel before injectors start working.

 

[oldmovieguy]

I have a new E 220 Class on order for collection from Stuttgart around 3rd December and was getting a tad concerned that no confirmation of the date had arrived. I chased the dealer who seemed a bit shy about saying to much other than, 'we sometimes get delays' but intimated that it could be either late December or even January or February. I got my fleet manager to contact MB corporate who said there was a 'shortage' of injectors but they were catching up the dalays and all should be well. We shall see.

 

[Mactech]

I’m disappointed but not entirely surprised. The injector is the area of technology which is at the cutting edge as regards performance and economy of diesels. I offer two examples from my own experience to support this.
My own turn of the century Vito 110CDI has had more injectors than tyres. This was one of the first high pressure common rail diesels by Mercedes.

During the Dieselmax landspeed record attempt our injectors were specially made for the massive flow required to produce nearly 190bhp per injector. Over 50% of them failed on fire up or just after. Once settled and working they tended to stay that way.
Given the car never did more than a few hundred miles in its life, that’s not saying much!
With new performance, economy and parts cost targets to meet, the latest cutting edge technology is proving the least robust.

 

[st13phil]

... the latest cutting edge technology is proving the least robust.

And ever was it thus.

I don't think many people realise quite how near the "bleeding edge" the latest generation of very high pressure common rail piezo injection systems are with regard to the manufacturing process. The benefits they bring in terms of power delivery, fuel efficiency and refinement are all very significant, but they are far from easy to manufacture successfully.

Remember how introduction of the Ford TDCi engine was delayed in the Mundano a few years ago? That was due to injector manufacturing problems. Not much ever changes when you're pushing the limits of the manufacturing envelope, I'm afraid

 

[Rory]

..they are far from easy to manufacture successfully.

When you look at how complex they are it's a wonder they work at all!

 

[BlackC55]

These injectors problems are massivly common on the new delphi injectors on the new diesels.

I think the injectors became back ordered recently.

 

[C240Sport97]

isn't it disappointing that these injector issues were not discovered during the hundreds of thousands of miles of testing? the most comprehensive development program ever?

 

[Mactech]

I wonder if there has been a suppiler change (or dual suppiler) to a defined spec. that is not quite tight enough? Valeo radiators anyone?

 

[grober]

The OM651 diesels are marvels of technology but I have to confess when I saw the valvegear at the rear of the engine and the integrated twin turbo exhaust manifold one of my first thoughts was I wouldn't want to own one of these out of warranty. A bill for a major repair in these systems is going make a big hole in any fuel saving you had made previously.

P.S. does sort of relate to this recently resurrected thread. http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/general-discussion/25072-hunt-simple-car.html

 

[st13phil]

I wonder if there has been a suppiler change (or dual suppiler) to a defined spec.

AFAIK, Delphi are the sole supplier of the injection system on this model and were the designers of it too, so I don't think it's a question of another supplier manufacturing to an inappropriate spec. More likely it's that the manufacturing process has scaled badly to the required volume, which also answers C240Sport97's point about why it didn't manifest itself as an issue during testing.

As an aside, I have it from a very reliable source that Bosch (as sole supplier) made a loss on every Pumpe Duse unit injection system fitted to a VW-group engine. Once it came time to renegotiate the supply agreement that was a major driver why VW switched to Common Rail.

 

[jim gardiner]

2 injectors failed so far

3 weeks ago no 2 failed and was recovered and after 3 days replaced, last monday no 4 failed, and as is mb policy in the uk, they only replace the failed one, i'm told that if this had happened in germany they would all be replaced.

I'm now told that the part are on back order and no date is available on when they will be available, the car is only 3 months old (blue effiency c220 cdi sport)

The service from mb assist has once again been 1st class, but would like to get my own car back.

 

[st13phil]

Hmm... Sorry to hear you've had two failures already.

Regarding the "replace all or replace only the one that's failed" question, this may not be what it seems on the surface, i.e. MBUK being tightfisted.

If the problem is one of tolerance "scatter" in manufacturing, while it follows that there will be an unacceptable failure rate in service because some of the production at either end of the tolerance spectrum will indeed fail, there will be no such thing as a "duff batch" in which all examples will fail prematurely. So, bearing in mind that there is already a supply problem, replacing all four whenever one fails would exacerbate the shortages with no real guarantee that the remaing three were actually faulty.

Assuming my hunch is correct then MBUK's approach may well be the most appropriate solution on more than one level. On the other hand, they may just be counting the pennies