Hybrids? waste of space.

[grober]

Now, you want to concentrate on what 1% of today's population is doing here in the UK. I say it is largely irrelevant. What matters is what we do about world population and next after that we need to worry about what the USA, China, India and Japan will be doing in the years ahead. We are a tiny island stuck off the north coast of Europe with an amazing history but with a tiny population in world terms and unable to do much to help solve the problem except by trying to persuade others to see the problem more clearly and encouraging them to address it. Multilateral talks and actions are what is needed, not useless unilateral posturing.

One of the best ways to persuade other people/governments is by example. Western developed countries have the technology now to reduce their fuel use/C02 emissions. If they don't show the political will to do it how can they legitimately persuade the developing countries to adopt similar policies in the future? We cant do anything directly to change peoples behaviour in other countries but as a nation we can make ourselves more self sufficient in energy by using fuel more efficiently. In tomorrows world fossil fuels are destined to become increasingly more expensive/difficult to obtain. It makes sense as a nation to begin to reduce our dependency on them.

 

[Alfie]

.............................................................................. It's upto you, either get onboard and adjust your lifestyle a bit or be taxed to death.
............................

Or change the regime thats imposing its 'politically correct' will on us all

Global warming is happening dont question that. But when China is building power stations like they are going out of fashion, me driving a 5 litre petrol car isnt going to make a jot of difference. Okay, I'll pay some tax but I pay so much tax anyway, the running of a decent car isnt going to make very much difference at all. The difference wont be measureable and I'll be happier than if I were driving a Hybrid.

As for Hybrids having some form of status in this life, they certainly do...Whenever I see a Prius I think what a prat............

 

[hawk20]

One of the best ways to persuade other people/governments is by example. Western developed countries have the technology now to reduce their fuel use/C02 emissions. If they don't show the political will to do it how can they legitimately persuade the developing countries to adopt similar policies in the future? We cant do anything directly to change peoples behaviour in other countries but as a nation we can make ourselves more self sufficient in energy by using fuel more efficiently. In tomorrows world fossil fuels are destined to become increasingly more expensive/difficult to obtain. It makes sense as a nation to begin to reduce our dependency on them.

That's what CND said and it got nowhere. If you do it all first you don't even get invited to the talks as Gorby told Thatcher. Multilateral is the only way to go in the real world. 'I will if you will, so will I.'

 

[grober]

Different situation maybe so a different mind set/approach required?

 

[jeremytaylor]

If you must have a hybrid, it will make far more sense connected to a diesel engine. But of course, the Pious was designed for the US where they don't understand about exotic substances like diesel.

When the PSA diesel hybrid comes out in a year or so, that might be worth closer scrutiny.

 

[nigel cross]

At the car show in Docklands they had a Hydrogen powered BM.
Gas Tank took up 1/2 boot, hope it doesn't leak.

 

[Dieselman]

They've had that on the road for a few years. hydrogen is a dead duck for motive power because of all the energy needed to create the hydrogen.

 

[R2e]

They've had that on the road for a few years. hydrogen is a dead duck for motive power because of all the energy needed to create the hydrogen.

Unless you have controllable nuclear fusion. Plentiful and cheap then. Still explodes though............. and never forget the Graf Zeppelin.

Mind you so does petrol, as Kamerad Molotov used to great effect

 

[Dryce]

If you must have a hybrid, it will make far more sense connected to a diesel engine.

A small gas turbine would do the job brilliantly.

 

[BonzoDog]

If you must have a hybrid, it will make far more sense connected to a diesel engine. But of course, the Pious was designed for the US where they don't understand about exotic substances like diesel.

When the PSA diesel hybrid comes out in a year or so, that might be worth closer scrutiny.

Is there not some talk of MB doing this with the B and/or A Class with batteries under the floor?

 

[grober]

Is there not some talk of MB doing this with the B and/or A Class with batteries under the floor?

Rumour had it that the double skinned floor construction was indeed intended for batteries. Cant remember if this was for a hybrid or a purely electrically propelled vehicle. edit http://www.evworld.com/library/carbdetour.pdf

 

[Nigel Cuttell]

Interesting project.

Think this will work??

If enough money is invested, we will find out.
A major challenge of automotive green-ness (assuming one has to drive) is to efficiently harness the energy used in braking. Instinctively I would expect a compressor to be able to generate stored energy (compressed air) better than a generator charging a battery.
If I had pots of money spare, I would invest in this project. As I haven't, old cooking oil sounds a better short term bet.

 

[robert.saunders]

Can't we all just walk more?

 

[Dieselman]

Or change the regime thats imposing its 'politically correct' will on us all

That should be good, this Blair government have been dragging their heels too long, about time we had a party of action.

 

[Dieselman]

A small gas turbine would do the job brilliantly.

Gas turbines are not any good for driving vehicles as they have no torque, also what's the efficiency of them?

 

[Dryce]

Gas turbines are not any good for driving vehicles as they have no torque, also what's the efficiency of them?

No engine braking either.

The thing just has to generate electricity. The electric motor (s) generate final drive torque.

They are efficient in terms of power generation but like constant speed. They are also lightweight and smooth and reliable. And you can run them on aviation jet fuel, diesel, or petrol.

A decent hybrid would consist of a turbine + generator + battery + motors.

No transmission. No differential(s). Individual motors per wheel (2 for 2wd and 4 for 4wd). So while you add the battery weight you offset that by dumping the transmission, differential(s) and at least some of the drive shafts.

Currently Toyota/Lexus have the battery + motors on top of the baggage of the old traditional engine and transmission and differentials.

 

[Dieselman]

Is a gas turbine more efficient than a diesel engine run at peak torque?

I genuinely don't know the answer so am asking, but understood efficiency to be fairly low due to low compression.

 

[Dryce]

Is a gas turbine more efficient than a diesel engine run at peak torque?

I genuinely don't know the answer so am asking, but understood efficiency to be fairly low due to low compression.

The thermal efficiencies are variously quoted at around 35% to 45% which as I understand it is pretty much in the same range as diesel diesel engine.
Large static installations in (ships/ power stations) can push this further.

The traditional disadvantage of a turbine in an automotive application is the variation in operating rpm (which it doesn't like) and the higher reduction ratio of the gearbox. Take these away and the turbine becomes more attractive.

The two primary assumptions I'm making are that the turbine will be lighter and that the mode of operation in the hybrid solution will offset its normal disadvantages. Turbines tend to be reasonbly happy working at peak load whereas I'm making the assumption that a diesel would have to be derated relative to it's normal automotive rating because in the hybrid it would be operating continuously at its rated power level whenever it was active.

However given how far diesels have come in the last few years it may well be that it makes more sense to use one.

 

[big x]

If enough money is invested, we will find out.
A major challenge of automotive green-ness (assuming one has to drive) is to efficiently harness the energy used in braking. Instinctively I would expect a compressor to be able to generate stored energy (compressed air) better than a generator charging a battery.
If I had pots of money spare, I would invest in this project. As I haven't, old cooking oil sounds a better short term bet.

The BMW M3 has a simple brake energy regeneration system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF8CkwYxt_Y

adam

 

[big x]

I think the current type Toyota hybrids have a very limited future due to inefficiency and high manufacturing costs.The two biggest European makes say the medium term future for small and medium engines will be fuel charge engines.Petrol is compressed and ignited without spark plugs.This gives the benefits of a diesel engine torque curve combined with ultra low emissions.Small diesel engines under 2 litres have no future.
Interestingly if you look at today's VAG line-up the 1.4 supercharged/turbo with
clutch engine cut-out has the exact same in gear acceleration times and fuel consumption figures as the VAG 2 litre diesel.

adam