My CLS55 Stage 3 Eurocharged

[BillyCR]

On the cooling front guys, I see every addition as another restrictor or possible weak point, nothing would be worse than dumping your coolant at high speed, I think the best possible way would be to take a EC or similar Heat Exchanger and fit it with Thermoelectric Cooler (TEC) have a button in the car and switch it on when you need it, if anyone uses it, remember its my idea and buy me a drink or two.

 

[SavMan]

I did see another thread over on that site but cannot find it, this was i think a rear tank 2 pump system with upgraded HE at the front and the weird bit another HE panel fitted at a slight angle on the underside of the car, not sure if it worked or not, it would be very vunerable in that location anyway and i think it was set up for quarter mile runs so not valid as a daily drive.

Have seen this setup to, not sure its that vulnerable though many rear engine cars have rads in similar positions. Also recall one of the Black Series cars had an oil cooler of some sort in a similar position.

 

[Ginger55k]

That's interesting Ollie, not a KC.

I was hoping it would be, more so, as one of the guys and myself have different opinions to how to deploy the proposed KC we have brought and are potentially taking different routes so that may well be interesting reading later, probably end up with me ripping mine out and re plumbing it!. But going to stick to my theory for now, and see how it fares.

I think KC is the way to go, remember mine is no way as efficient as a full on KC system but there are lots of options with your proposed plan i.e. the plumbing, fit by-pass to HE or remove completely, i still think mine would be the business with a plate HE fitted inside the tank.

I still think KC suits the front mounted tank position giving shorter runs, head of water on pump and so on.

What are your plans?

 

[ACID]

Any sort of split cooling is better than the standard setup, whether you go for an under bonnet reservoir or a Ice tank in the rear, the supercharger will run cooler and you will have better IAT recovery.

Also It all depends on what you want to achieve what your power goals are etc., if you do a lot of track days / 1/4 miles runs etc, split cooling will benefit you and you will notice the difference in the performance and the consistency of the power.

However if you don't drive the car hard and do not do track days / constant hard pulls etc... IMHO you wont be able to tell the difference and just leave split cooling out of the equation! just stick to a larger H/E.

 

[ricky s]

I think KC is the way to go, remember mine is no way as efficient as a full on KC system but there are lots of options with your proposed plan i.e. the plumbing, fit by-pass to HE or remove completely, i still think mine would be the business with a plate HE fitted inside the tank.

I still think KC suits the front mounted tank position giving shorter runs, head of water on pump and so on.

What are your plans?

Ginger 55, I had not planned to divulge my 'sneaky unhand plans', but as you ask, here's my plan for my KC install, and my reasons, sure I am either going to learn something here or regret letting my plans out


Currently, my boot mounted ice box water is pumped, from boot pump 1, to SC cooler, then flows to front HE, then to second pump, back to ice box. I am going to interrupt the flow to the SC cooler with the KC, so as, to my mind the 'premium' cold water arriving from KC to the SC cooler directly. Basically that's it. However the people I have spoken with, tell me to send and store this 'premium' cold water to the ice tank, and distribute it there after. But I cannot get over, if the water from the KC is as cold as the system will get, sending the coolant water about 7-8 meters of 12mm bore pipe work, back and from the ice box, will only result in the coolant water temps rising above that which the KC kicked it out. However if the ice box is full of ice, well that's another story, but lets surmise it's not at this moment, as that's a Vmax scenario.
I then get into flow rates of the coolant, is KC going to further restrict the existing flow, as BillyCR has just raised, let alone additional pipe joints vulnerable to leaks, will the KC deal with existing flow rate, too faster water flow, will not chill as needed, too slow, SC potentially over heating, or have I got to create a diversion valve, (had not planned to), to minimise the coolant pipework route so as to not restrict the water flow resistance.
I am going it plum it in, measuring the initial and after, flow rates of the KC firstly, if it's restrictive might have to resort to plan B, which I hav'nt made yet LOL, perhaps you guys are my plan B

 

[ricky s]

I think KC is the way to go, remember mine is no way as efficient as a full on KC system but there are lots of options with your proposed plan i.e. the plumbing, fit by-pass to HE or remove completely, i still think mine would be the business with a plate HE fitted inside the tank.

I still think KC suits the front mounted tank position giving shorter runs, head of water on pump and so on.

What are your plans?

Ginger 55, I had not planned to divulge my 'sneaky unhand plans', but as you ask, here's my plan for my KC install, and my reasons, sure I am either going to learn something here or regret letting my plans out


Currently, my boot mounted ice box water is pumped, from boot pump 1, to SC cooler, then flows to front HE, then to second pump, back to ice box. I am going to interrupt the flow to the SC cooler with the KC, so as, to my mind the 'premium' cold water arriving from KC to the SC cooler directly. Basically that's it. However the people I have spoken with, tell me to send and store this 'premium' cold water to the ice tank, and distribute it there after. But I cannot get over, if the water from the KC is as cold as the system will get, sending the coolant water about 7-8 meters of 12mm bore pipe work, back and from the ice box, will only result in the coolant water temps rising above that which the KC kicked it out. However if the ice box is full of ice, well that's another story, but lets surmise it's not at this moment, as that's a Vmax scenario.
I then get into flow rates of the coolant, is KC going to further restrict the existing flow, as BillyCR has just raised, let alone additional pipe joints vulnerable to leaks, will the KC deal with existing flow rate, too faster water flow, will not chill as needed, too slow, SC potentially over heating, or have I got to create a diversion valve, (had not planned to), to minimise the coolant pipework route so as to not restrict the water flow resistance.
I am going it plum it in, measuring the initial and after, flow rates of the KC firstly, if it's restrictive might have to resort to plan B, which I hav'nt made yet LOL, perhaps you guys are my plan B

 

[BlackC55]

Iirc Savmans tank didn't show any performance advantage with ice or just water.

Waterless coolant is a better option too.

 

[Ginger55k]

Ginger 55, I had not planned to divulge my 'sneaky unhand plans', but as you ask, here's my plan for my KC install, and my reasons, sure I am either going to learn something here or regret letting my plans out


Currently, my boot mounted ice box water is pumped, from boot pump 1, to SC cooler, then flows to front HE, then to second pump, back to ice box. I am going to interrupt the flow to the SC cooler with the KC, so as, to my mind the 'premium' cold water arriving from KC to the SC cooler directly. Basically that's it. However the people I have spoken with, tell me to send and store this 'premium' cold water to the ice tank, and distribute it there after. But I cannot get over, if the water from the KC is as cold as the system will get, sending the coolant water about 7-8 meters of 12mm bore pipe work, back and from the ice box, will only result in the coolant water temps rising above that which the KC kicked it out. However if the ice box is full of ice, well that's another story, but lets surmise it's not at this moment, as that's a Vmax scenario.
I then get into flow rates of the coolant, is KC going to further restrict the existing flow, as BillyCR has just raised, let alone additional pipe joints vulnerable to leaks, will the KC deal with existing flow rate, too faster water flow, will not chill as needed, too slow, SC potentially over heating, or have I got to create a diversion valve, (had not planned to), to minimise the coolant pipework route so as to not restrict the water flow resistance.
I am going it plum it in, measuring the initial and after, flow rates of the KC firstly, if it's restrictive might have to resort to plan B, which I hav'nt made yet LOL, perhaps you guys are my plan B

I do know Olly was pulling his hair out trying to figure out flows and tried different routes and so on.

KC directly to SC its definitely a flow rate issue that needs to be spot on.

Is this the KC system advertised across the pond or a homemade variant.

 

[ACID]

Wow my car seems to have the least mods! I am still unsure about the change of pulleys (SC or Crank)

Stay away from the SC pulley and get the crank done if you don't want the headache. I will have a new crank pulley ready in a few weeks.

 

[ricky s]

Iirc Savmans tank didn't show any performance advantage with ice or just water.

Waterless coolant is a better option too.

Ollie, are you saying the rear ice box system is not worth fitting?

 

[ricky s]

I do know Olly was pulling his hair out trying to figure out flows and tried different routes and so on.

KC directly to SC its definitely a flow rate issue that needs to be spot on.

Is this the KC system advertised across the pond or a homemade variant.

The pond one mate. Its not overly that expensive, so thought why not give it a go. Will report back when it's on.

 

[Ginger55k]

The pond one mate. Its not overly that expensive, so thought why not give it a go. Will report back when it's on.

It seems to be a good system, options options options, whats the best way to fit and design a system, there are many across the pond that have fitted this with trunk tank or front tank, fitting divert valves for the HE or even removing the HE altogether, I think the problem with the rear tank is the pipework lengths and ensuring that the pump/pumps can circulate and maintain the correct flow rates through the intercooler.

Weak pump flow = overheat
Strong pump flow = travels to fast through intercooler before it picks up heat

Its all about getting the flows right, and that can mean as simple as re-routing and moving the pipework.

 

[ricky s]

It seems to be a good system, options options options, whats the best way to fit and design a system, there are many across the pond that have fitted this with trunk tank or front tank, fitting divert valves for the HE or even removing the HE altogether, I think the problem with the rear tank is the pipework lengths and ensuring that the pump/pumps can circulate and maintain the correct flow rates through the intercooler.

Weak pump flow = overheat
Strong pump flow = travels to fast through intercooler before it picks up heat

Its all about getting the flows right, and that can mean as simple as re-routing and moving the pipework.

yes mate, your right, but when do you know the pumps are getting weak, Sav posted this up a few weeks back about his own car, virtually got to monitor everything every minute of the day, the world of modding! don't do it guys
But if you do, please tell us all about it!

I'm off

 

[Ginger55k]

yes mate, your right, but when do you know the pumps are getting weak, Sav posted this up a few weeks back about his own car, virtually got to monitor everything every minute of the day, the world of modding! don't do it guys
But if you do, please tell us all about it!

I'm off

Yep that's about it, back to the original thread even an IC pump operating at 85% efficiency will have an impact on a car with 600+BHP with a supercharger, the temperatures are that critical.

Do i set up my android to interrogate the obd2 every time i go for a spin, no, that's no fun having to monitor everything to that extreme, my working day sees me doing that for a 12 hour shift monitoring adjusting checking data logging trending and looking at half a dozen monitors with thousands of pieces of real time data, in the real world that extreme is important, but saying that we are talking about a car.

Whats important to me its the giggle dyno

 

[BlackC55]

Ollie, are you saying the rear ice box system is not worth fitting?

Not at all. It is very much worth it.

I think Paul did not see any difference between running water and water AND Ice.

 

[ChrisA]

Finally get my car back in a few hours after a long few weeks for the Stage 3 Eurocharged.
Paul is driving it up to Yorkshire for me after I spent all last week down his place.
Many issues which weren't foreseen, many problems which were eventually fixed but I've got to be honest and say it's not been a great experience.
A lot of money, a lot of headache, a lot of doubts but more importantly, a lot of precious time away from my family. I spend enough time away Offshore!

Bad decision? Yes, I think it was considering the Weistec route is a similar price. Once I started, I couldn't really stop mid way through so it is what it is.
I imagine Paul and Andy have just about had enough also

I will keep those who are interested posted over the next few days/weeks, how the car performs and any error codes or problems that may/may not occur. I will be at Acid's place on the 24th Feb so hopefully see a few faces there

 

[Ginger55k]

I do hope everything works out ok for you.

 

[ricky s]

Finally get my car back in a few hours after a long few weeks for the Stage 3 Eurocharged.
Paul is driving it up to Yorkshire for me after I spent all last week down his place.
Many issues which weren't foreseen, many problems which were eventually fixed but I've got to be honest and say it's not been a great experience.
A lot of money, a lot of headache, a lot of doubts but more importantly, a lot of precious time away from my family. I spend enough time away Offshore!

Bad decision? Yes, I think it was considering the Weistec route is a similar price. Once I started, I couldn't really stop mid way through so it is what it is.
I imagine Paul and Andy have just about had enough also

I will keep those who are interested posted over the next few days/weeks, how the car performs and any error codes or problems that may/may not occur. I will be at Acid's place on the 24th Feb so hopefully see a few faces there

Sorry to hear about the troubles Chris, unfortunately that's what modding is, I have suffered various issues as well, where additional monies had to be thrown at the car, and still have a couple of annoying things not fully addressed, but that's how it is, this said, I hope your car is now fine, and you get to enjoy the car all the more. If you have not driven it in recent times, I am sure you will get a big buzz from the car now, all the best with it.

 

[Lee C63]

Fingers crossed its all sorted now and you get some enjoyment out of the new power.

 

[simon1966]

I hope all is now sorted Chris. I know its been a difficult few weeks for all involved with some unforeseen issues arising, sometimes things just seem to go like that.

I'm sure you will enjoy the car Take it easy and I hope we can meet up at Acid's late Feb