Penalty Charge Notice Road Traffic Act 1991 (as ammended)

[Spinal]

I'm guessing from the title, you guessed what this thread is about.

What you probably don't expect is that it has NOTHING to do with my car... Actually, nothing to do with ANY car!

Let me start at the beginning... once upon a time, in a faraway land, there was a parking attendent with a parking meter shov...

I'll start again, shall I? This morning considering the lovely weather, I decide to ride to uni on my bike and laugh at a few of the motorists on the way. After a pretty perilous journey (I'm a noob at riding a bike, and I have realised riding at peak hour in central london isn't a task for the weak hearted) I get too college. I try getting into the bike park but am denied access on campus as I don't have a safety badge displayed on the bike. Fair enough.... I find a bike park outside the college, but alas, it was full, so I park the bike as close to the bike park just outside the college thinking that all was fine. Little attention did I pay to the pay&display parking spots just nearby.

I finish at uni, all proud and go out to my bike, only to find a parking ticket CELLO TAPED (actually, yellow insulating tape) to my seat. At first I think its just a practical joke by one of my friends (or maybe I hoped that, not sure); but when I read it and the VRN is mine my heart sinks.

So after such a great tale, let me ask you; cal I contest this? I mean SERIOSLY! It says "code 06p PARKED WITHOUT CLEARLY DISPLAYING VALID TKT (p&d)" leaving aside the fact that ITS A BIKE, NOT A CAR.... WHERE oh WHERE would I put the ticket? I don't even have a windscreen, so under that wouldn't work... I'm really really amazed... (and apparently, I wasn't the only one to get a ticket)

The ticket says that to make a formal representation I need to wait 28 days (I.e. after the "cheaper" £50 period expires, but I can make an informal one beforehand. What do you guys recommend?

Michele

 

[Doodle]

If it was me, I'd be putting in a counter claim for the damage caused to my seat from the tape, and then see what they had to say

 

[splang]

How did they get your own VRN??

 

[splang]

where did they get your VRN?

It was a pedal bike was it?

 

[Lazarus]

Is it a motorbike? Or a push bike?

 

[Spinal]

Sorry, Motorbike.

I was kinda steaming out the ears when I wrote that that I forgot to specify it...

 

[Satch]

You are not alone.

Bikers immunity under threat

For years bikers have enjoyed relative anonimity in London which has enabled them to avoid being targeted by some of the 'easy-cash' seeking borough councils. However as the number of people taking to motorised two wheel transport has increased, so has the number of proposed ideas for gaining revenue from this untapped source. Some might say that the new targeting of bikers comes as a direct result of the council's need for income to replace that lost in parking fines given to car drivers who no longer venture into The City because of the Congestion Charge, and who thus, are unlikely to be parking illegally within the zone. Ê

With Westminister Council seemingly taking the lead on targeting bikers: they have already trialed meters on a selection of the solo motorcycle bays (these were generally boycotted by bikers in favour of the free bays elsewhere - Westminster Council refusing to allow the results of this 'experiment' to be open to public scutiny, probably for fear of embarrisment over the cost of installation of the meters and ground anchors versus the miserly income generated from the few who did park in these bays), and latterly, have ordered the ticketing of all motorcycle / scooters parked on drayman's doors and 'Pavement Lights' (small square blocks of clear glass embedded into ground to let light into basement rooms), the days of flexability for the two wheel fanatics seem to be at an end.

Various councils have already adopted a carte blanche policy of charging bikers for parking in their Resident, Pay and Display and Shared-use bays, ignoring the cases put forward by pro-biker groups for leanency.Ê Problems such as that of Pay and Display tickets on bikes being removed by other vehicle owners or blown off by the wind, and most often culminating in a parking fine, have been disregarded.Ê Facts like: Motorcycles are more economical and environmentally friendly than a car, cause less congestion and furthermore help to reduce the burden on the already overstretched public transport system, have been sidelined. To add insult to injury, bikers' lives are made even more difficult by a clear lack of information on the rules for motorcycle parking which change from borough to borough, and furthermore, which are not advertised on-street.Ê Ê

In response to the latter problem, help is now at hand in the form of a new website www.motorcycleparking.com The site gives a complete overview of the rules for motorcycle parking in each of the 33 borough councils, as well as identifying the location of the free solo motorcycle bays throughout Greater London.Ê The site is also fast becoming the focal point for comments on the current lack of motorcycle parking provision in many areas of London, as well as acting as an information and advice centre for motorcycle parking.Ê

Many bikers point out that whilst they are being targeted for revenue, they feel they are being given second class status in many transport policies.Ê Some bikers are also turning to stealth tactics to avoid being ticketed by covering up or removing their tax disc and vehicle registration plate (parking wardens are unable to issue a ticket without a Vehicle Registration Number (VRN)! Parking wardens are also unable to interfere with your vehicle other than to fix a ticket). Questions remain as to the legality of this 'rule-bending' as legislation points to vehicles requiring to display a valid tax disc and VRN. It also remains to be seen what would be the outcome of an appeal by a biker whose vehicle had been tampered with by a parking warden i.e if the warden took it upon him/herself to remove the item covering the VRN.Ê One thing for sure is that whilst the number of bikers commuting into London continues to increase, the more council purse-holders will look at the opportunities for income generation from this source.Ê

One only hopes that if bikers are either charged for entering the Congestion Charging Zone (they currently do not have to pay the charge) or are charged for parking in the currently free Solo Motorcycle Parking bays, then this is matched with better facilities for bikers, such as many more bays in gereral, more bays equipped with secure parking (ground anchors to secure a motorcycle to so it cannot be stolen by being lifted into the back of a vehicle) and the opening of bus lanes to motorcyclists.Ê Ê

For further information on this article or on the website www.motorcycleparking.com contact the site and article author, Will Beeley,Êat [email protected]ÊÊÊÊ

 

[Spinal]

Grumble Grumble...

Now that just great, Westminister apparently charges... yet Hillindon (where I live) does not... so I guess I am forced to pay.

BAH, Humbug. I will type a quick letter of complain anyways, Satch, thank! lots of great info there, definety going on my favorites list. Now I just need to wait to get my lovely free college parking and I can stay well clear of both those pay and display meters AND the C-charge


Though Not happy, I've resigned tp paying...
Thanks,
Michele

 

[KLP 92]

Apparently a parking ticket is only valid if it is attached to your windscreen......

 

[guydewdney]

deleted, long story..

 

[Spinal]

Apparently a parking ticket is only valid if it is attached to your windscreen......

Really? Do you have any Act stating that? I would really love to challenge this, I would challenge this tonight if I had something to go on!

Deleted

From what I know, parking wardens are allowed only to interfere with your vehicle to affix the ticket.... so covering the plate and disk with a paper (and a kind little note stating that removing it would be an offence on their part) should also work

P.S. I was trying to figure out who to mail my complaint too and found this address:
[email protected]
Think I'll get a reply ?

 

[Thmsshaun]

I thought bikes generallt were exempt from parking fees anyway

 

[bobmedley]

Apparently a parking ticket is only valid if it is attached to your windscreen......

I just won an appeal where a Council tried to do me because the ticket was in a side window - if you want to take this further go to

http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/

Good luck

 

[Benzowner]

Tell them you bought a ticket, and as you did not have a windscreen you placed it on your fuel tank and the wind must have blown it away

 

[rees_A]

I think you should pay the ticket, you parked your bike illegally so should have to pay. If you cannot buy a ticket for the said space you occupied, you shouldn't have parked there in the first place!!!

IF I CAN'T FIND A PLACE TO PARK MY CAR, I CAN'T JUST LEAVE IT ANYWHERE AND WHEN I GET A TICKET COMPLAIN THAT THERE WERE NO SPACES ANYWHERE ELSE!!!!!!

 

[imadoofus]

From what I know, parking wardens are allowed only to interfere with your vehicle to affix the ticket.... so covering the plate and disk with a paper (and a kind little note stating that removing it would be an offence on their part) should also work

I think this is a bit of an urban myth. The fact is, it's illegal to fail to correctly display a registration plate and/or a valid Vehicle Excise Duty disc, so covering them up may save you a parking ticket, but it could cost you 3 points, and a bigger fine.

It is true, however that wardens are not allowed to tamper with a vehicle, which is why black cabs have those enormous six-inch wide hubcaps - so they can't be clamped.

PJ

 

[Spinal]

I think you should pay the ticket, you parked your bike illegally so should have to pay. If you cannot buy a ticket for the said space you occupied, you shouldn't have parked there in the first place!!!

IF I CAN'T FIND A PLACE TO PARK MY CAR, I CAN'T JUST LEAVE IT ANYWHERE AND WHEN I GET A TICKET COMPLAIN THAT THERE WERE NO SPACES ANYWHERE ELSE!!!!!!

I agree that if I broke a reasonable law/rule, I should be fined. and apparently, I did brake a law, so I was fined, and I will pay the fine. That said, I also feel that the law is EXTREMELY unclear as wheather I can park for free or not seems to be set to the whim of the boroughs.

Tell them you bought a ticket, and as you did not have a windscreen you placed it on your fuel tank and the wind must have blown it away

APPEAL AGAINST A PCN FOR FAILURE TO PAY AND DISPLAY
Starkey –v- Hammersmith & Fulham

(PAS Case No. 2000402077)


The Penalty Charge Notice issued to the appellant’s car alleged that the vehicle was ‘parked without clearly displaying a valid permit or pay and display ticket’. The facts were that the appellant had bought a ticket and displayed it on the windscreen. The ticket would not have expired by the time the PCN was issued. The ticket was missing by the time the appellant returned. He explained that his ‘kit’ car had no side windows, and assumed that the ticket must have been removed by a mischievous third party. The Council asserted that ‘it is the responsibility of the driver of the vehicle to ensure that the vehicle is parked in accordance with the parking regulations at all times. The Traffic Management Order (TMO) section 6 states: 'at all times during which the vehicle is left in a parking place during the permitted hours the driver shall cause to be displayed a valid ticket so that the date of issue, time of expiry and the charge paid in the case of a ticket, are readily visible from the front or near side of the vehicle.’ The notice on the ticket machine contained various items of information, such as the hours when payment was due, the tariff and the words ‘Penalty Charge for failure to comply with Conditions of Use £80’. A list headed ‘Conditions of Use’ stated: ‘During controlled hours it is an offence to: 1 Park without payment and display of ticket 2 Transfer tickets between vehicles 3 Remain parked after expiry of paid period’



The Adjudicator referred to Burnett -v- Buckinghamshire County Council (PAS Case No. HIW0003) in which the Adjudicator, Mr Hickinbottom, decided that ‘...any regulation by a local authority under its powers under the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 must be signed so that the motoring public knows of that regulation.’ The Adjudicator found that the particular provision of the TMO which the Council sought to enforce was not so signed. Reasonable motorists would read the words ‘park without payment and display of ticket’ as requiring them to display a ticket at the point when they park and leave the vehicle. The words were not adequate to convey to readers of the notice that if, after they have complied with that condition, the ticket is removed without their permission, falls down or in some way its details cease to be visible, then liability will arise even where the ticket has not expired. Where a substantial penalty will be imposed, a specific warning must appear to make motorists aware of the importance of taking every possible step to ensure that the ticket remains visible at all times. The Adjudicator recognised that in the case of a car such as the appellant’s that might present practical difficulties, but he must at least be put on notice of the risk he runs.

I think this is a bit of an urban myth. The fact is, it's illegal to fail to correctly display a registration plate and/or a valid Vehicle Excise Duty disc, so covering them up may save you a parking ticket, but it could cost you 3 points, and a bigger fine.

It is true, however that wardens are not allowed to tamper with a vehicle, which is why black cabs have those enormous six-inch wide hubcaps - so they can't be clamped.

PJ

I did some research into this:
"City of Westminster Enforcement Protocol puts end to avoiding a ticket by covering your VRN and tax disc.... Section 6 of the protocol (published March 2005) states that 'Parking Attendants can and should remove the covers from vehicles to take enforcement action.....'. More Here

That said, I am still sending out quite a few letters and emails stating how dismayed I am at the absolute lack of clarity of regulations and at what I find is a totally insane law.

I think I'll end my gripe here and catch a few hours of sleep, in less than 6 hours I should be back on the bike...

 

[jeremytaylor]

I recall a story a couple of years ago where a Pizza man avoided his mopeds getting tickets by ensuring that when they were parked and on their stands neither wheel was actually touching the ground. Apparently this avoided the legal requirement to comply with parking regulations, because the vehicle was not 'parked'. (I assume 'parked' is defined as something like 'stationary with one or more wheel in contact with the ground').

Anyone else remember this? Maybe this loophole is closed now?

 

[Spinal]

I recall a story a couple of years ago where a Pizza man avoided his mopeds getting tickets by ensuring that when they were parked and on their stands neither wheel was actually touching the ground. Apparently this avoided the legal requirement to comply with parking regulations, because the vehicle was not 'parked'. (I assume 'parked' is defined as something like 'stationary with one or more wheel in contact with the ground').

Anyone else remember this? Maybe this loophole is closed now?

I had heard of this too, but my bike is a crusier with a kick/side stand

Kinda heavy too...

 

[Pietre]

Motorcycles in Portsmouth park free in Pay and Display area simply due to the fact there is no secure place to display your ticket. For once a logical decision from a local council.......... now if only we could get the Spinaker Tower to open? (Portsmouth local humour).